A differing point of view

cropped-lion03-male-sitting-facecloseup4One of the disappointments we’ve experienced since starting this blog is there has been little comm from on lines Scientologists or any official comments from the church. We believe it would offer some excellent discussion.

We have only had two comments from what appeared to be official Scientologists. We posted their comments but unfortunately there was no further comm after these initial two.

However we have been made aware that a new blog was started called “The Tech Lions”. It does offer a view different to this blog and as such it should have further exposure to allow for broader discussion. From their about page:

Hello,

I am a Scientologist and I have recently run into some stories about some individuals who in the past have pretended to support Scientology and who are now involved in a systematic black PR campaign against my Church while still pretending to apply Scientology. I have decided that it is time to get the voice of real Scientologists heard. I am doing my own investigation and I will expose on this blog the out-tech, the squirreling, the overts, the crimes and high crimes of these people. Any other Scientologist that is out there and is up for the challenge is welcome to help. We already have a team of hard-nosed, staunched, KSW oriented Scientologists that are at work and soon you will get the fruit of their work. Stay tuned. The squirrels and SPs will not win. We will expose their sordid motives, we will find their crimes and use the most formidable weapon that any one of them cannot defeat: the truth. So stay tuned, you are up for a very interesting journey.

You can reach us here: kswlions@outlook.com

We encourage you to have a look. Multiple viewpoints are important. You can find it at kswlions.wordpress.com

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47 thoughts on “A differing point of view

    • Yes – the anonymity was the first thing I noticed. Also I think most of the people who posted there were anonymous.

      Then I realized – they are going to “expose” the “crimes” of “SPs” and don’t want to get sued. Its got OSA written all over it.

      Well let’s see if they can stay true to their alleged agenda – to look for the truth. I am not holding my breath – but I don’t mind being wrong. I wait to see. The truth is a formidable weapon. I won’t argue with that.

      • You got it.
        With me they used my pc folder data and took things that I wanted to work on in myself and felt bad about and then created a phony blog and disclosed and exaggerated my personal and trusted communications to them and tried to discredit me. I don’t even care anymore about it because I know they are 1.1 snakes and are not brave enough to post in their own names.
        What they try to pawn off as “communication” is a cowardly shabby dirty sheet over their own version of KKK tactics. If you know anything about the tone scale, you know they are not above 2.0 and are not “Lions”. They are cowardly losers. You can smell “cob” all over their communications.

        By the way, if we “SP’s” are all so bad , how come they let us onto the highest auditing lines of theirs. Can’t they apply the PTS/SP tech. Can’t cob apply the PTS/SP tech?? He apparently (per him) allowed two of the biggest SP’s directly onto two of the most important posts in Scientology. So even if you use their own logic, they are squirrel administrators.

  1. Thanks for that data, laughter is the best medicine!

    One interesting point is how little comments there are on the kswlions posts and how many comments there are on this blogs posts. So we are upstat 🙂

    Keep up the good work scnafrica

    I also find it

  2. Oh my.. I had a peek at the church blog, what a laugh, almost Monty Pythonish in phoney way! I wonder if the people commenting (very, very few) were paid, under duress or really zombied out by GAT 2 ?? Afterall thetans still fall for light shows, smoke and bright shiney gadgets!

    I guess for the hard boiled zealots to look beyond the hypnotic rhetoric is too much to ask. Better to call anyone who disagrees an SP or a natter who obviously has huge witholds! In this case the overt doth speak loudest in accusation. To say what was said about the Corbetts on this church blog shouts slander campaign all over it. There is a condition worse than blindness..seeing something that isnt there!

  3. Wow, thanks for making us aware of this….seems this blog is certainly having an impact…people including members of the church are tuning in. Great validation for you Scnafrica and all members of this blog.
    I wonder if this means that Scientologists affiliated to the church can now surf the net or would it only be restricted to that particular site. Interesting to see what will happen in this new space…
    To Scientologists affiliated to the church, please note that i am a Scientologists and always will be. I support Scientology and the intention of Scientology wholeheartedly – there is no doubt on this….I am however not in support of abusive behavior (incl physical abuse), gross invalidation, gross evaluation, over regging to the extent that people are literally chased away, alteration of the tech etc, etc…and the list goes on and on…Please may you have a look, take a look at what is happening right now…are you experiencing lots af amazing ARC or perhaps quite the opposite….This is my sincerest wish for you…that you can look at what is happening and make an objective decision based on this. I have made a heartfelt plea once before and some may think me a fool for continuing to do so but I do care for the well intentioned individuals out there who also believe in LRH and what he stood for. That we certainly have in common. Therefore I appeal to you again, take an honest look at the current situation and current state if affairs…a least try to o so…now, what do you see?

  4. Just one caution – not out of fear – but just so people are aware of it, and especially those needing to stay under the radar. I have just visited the site, and it is likely to be an OSA site, or at least will be reporting to OSA, not unlike the multiple spinoffs that were generated following the advent of Marty Rathbun’s blog, Steve Halls’ site and Mike Rinder’s blog. These sites are not only to generate Black PR on free Scientologists, but also to harvest and mine data.

    Every time you click on a Church supported site, your IP address, internet host/service provider and browser and OS (operating system) can be identified, and thus it could reveal your identity to the site owners,

    It is advisable to use an anonymous proxy to surf sites like these. One of these is here: http://anonymouse.org/anonwww.html

    and to access the site given here safely without giving away your IP, etc, you would enter the url of the site into the proxy so it would look like this:

    http://anonymouse.org/cgi-bin/anon-www.cgi/http://kswlions.wordpress.com

    There are other proxies out there to use as well, this was just an example.

  5. First, hello from Israel. I am from Dror Center.
    When our group was declared, very similar to the way it was done in South Africa, OSA has also opened a blog about us with the name “Truth About Dror” which is as far from the thruth as possible. The blog started noisily with some traffic of mostly Kool Aid Drinkers cheering the anonimous writers of the blog. I did the mistake of trying to be heard there. My comments were moderated. When I wrote there that I am not going to comment anymore, they (who is they, they refused to tell) tried to prompt me to continue my comments. I realized that I just give them the push to continue with the smears. I stopped and the blog is no longer active.
    My advice to you is to not give them any audience. They use any means of black propoganda possible, exactly the kind LRH warns us about.
    Let the dogs bark…

  6. Haha, the “The Tech Lions”?
    No, this blog is HIGHLY censored!

    I thought it was funny that they said this:
    “Exposing The Merchants of Chaos
    If you are reading this Blog most likely have heard about another one which pretends to be a “free discussion tool for Scientologists.” Nothing could be further from the truth.”

    So I tested them to see if they were just pretending to be better. To me it was quite obvious that this blog is maintained by hypocrites.
    I wrote a comment pointing out how you couled look at “leaving because of overts” differently.
    “barefacedmessiah November 15, 2013 at 8:17 am
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.”

    Guess what …. Still not published! 😉

  7. Thanks for putting this post on your web-site. It is truly worthy of the Völkischer Beobachter (look it up if you don’t know what this is).

    Unfortunately I won’t be logging onto their site. I don’t want to get any more nauseated than I already am.

  8. Nice one Backincomm.

    A couple of thoughts. To understand the blog properly you would have to track down the “other” site. Not so? Hopefully this works and they go across to see what this other site is all about.

    There’s that odd marketing maxim that says if you are going to open a furniture store or a Planet Hollywood restaurant, open it opposite or next door to another furniture store or Harvey Wall Banger restaurant. This increases the area traffic and all benefit. Interesting.

    Wendy, is does seem like it smells like OSA, and the site has an attack approach too so I guess you are spot on.

    I tried to mentally summarize all posts and comments, and it goes like this, bad people over there, SPs over there, people with OWs over there. Non-KSW people over there.

    Okay, so where is “over there?”. The site visitors have to go over there to find out what’s over there.

    Well hello to you. Over here we have divergent views and please look over the article just prior to this one. An excellent write-up delivered by a pro. It encapsulates the ethos of who we are. We are everywhere. We think like a motley crew. Some are wanting applications of tech outside the church, some want to vent, some want to progress along their path of looking and understanding what’s going on, some are even disappointed in the tech to some degree, some have readjusted their dreams, but all of us have some connection to the way things were are how they should be. In whatever guise and whatever degree. Some intensely and some “been there done that”.

    The vast majority have zero OWs in reaching this position. Yep. Zero. We followed a path and found the path changed and chose not to follow it. This is, dear OSA, or OSAesque person, the OPPOSITE of an OW. It is a sane survival choice. [what is the definition or word for the opposite of an overt? A goodie?]

    Let’s see how you pan out. Nevertheless, you are welcome here in alignment with the parameters of the blog.

    • The opposite of >overtpro survival decision<. At least that is what life taught me. Since I made the decision to stay away from the church my stats have been in good conditions.

  9. How sad and desperate corporate Scientology has become. There’s a big wonderful world out there full of amazing people with diverse opinions. Their posts hammer on about control, punishment and exclusion. How miserable and fearful their lives sound! If this is their ‘church’ they’re welcome to it. All 30 (?) of them!!!

  10. Let’s look at some numbers, shall we?

    There’s five posts total:

    Nov 9 – 0 comments
    Nov 14 – 1 comment
    Nov 17 – 6 comments
    Nov 20 – 1 comment
    Nov 26 – 1 comment

    There are 4 commenters:

    888 – 3 comments
    Larry Byrnes – 2 comments
    Jake – 1 comment
    Not Impressed/Unimpressed – 9 comments (I reckon this these are the same person, the posts read the same way)

    OSA, I am disappoint. I really thought you had more. It’s sad but I can’t even bring myself to type up a gold old fashioned J&D – it’s like the knights at the bridge scene in Monty Python’s Holy Grail – when the fellow is lying on the ground both arms and legs chopped off, using the sword just isn’t fun anymore. CoS is like that – a washed up hasbeen joke with no arms and no legs (I might want to have a look inside it’s mouth, I think it’s lost its dentures too)

  11. If what they are applying is “standard tech” then I will take squirrel any day of the week.
    You can feel the hatred and hostility in the words of that blog. They can’t just discuss, they have to find the “crimes” for someone wanting some sanity put into the cult. They try to introvert and stifle communication through fear. Why can’t they just discuss things rationally? It is because they are lead by an SP called cob and they are PTS to him and in fear of their “eternity”.
    Even if someone had some “overts” does that mean that they can’t spot out-points?? LRH says that absolutes are unobtainable. That would mean that all men and women have some overts. If you used their “logic”, nobody would be able to critique Scientology. And that is exactly what cob wants. Blind following lemmings that pay when asked.

  12. Eeeek..already went there without doing the above!! Should have known better! What a clever way to locate us dissidents! Very good advice Phoenix, hope they arent too internet savvy right now! Oh well 😉

    • Sheeple Bane – I don’t think they are very Internet savvy at all, but they do hire people to help them on this. You are probably fine, though, if it was a once-off.

      Me, personally, I do not give a flying you-know-what if they figure out who I am 😀 but for those who need to be under the radar, it is good to be aware of these things.

      Steve Hall gave an excellent briefing on Internet Security, and am posting it here as it is essential data to have:

      http://www.scientology-cult.com/knowledge-center/security-briefing.html

  13. I must say:
    the posts and info are very interesting. It is a strange and wierd scene. It seems to me that there are hidden terminals who are working to pit scientologists against each other.
    If it is not written it is not true. Tread carefully and maintain one’s own personal integrity is very good advice. “Total truth is total power and all the mechanics of OT work out too” Too many things seem calculated to divert people from the bridge. There is a confusion of games

    • Wise words Quench.I for one would like to see exposed for what it is, the game where an altered Bridge is sold as the real thing. We lost our formal version of our religion/philosophy because we did not/could not stand up and say “no more”. It is now inevitable that enlightened Scientologist will, in some form, be pitted against unenlightened Scientologist and that may actually be a church/osa/cob strategy. Therefore a good thing would be to ensure that one continues with ones own correct Bridge while being vigilant and willing to fight back.LRH also says a snarling defence of a power source is required. Bizarrely in this case the power sources that need defending are those asking for an end to the alterations of LRH’s work and advices. Unfortunately turning the other cheek just results in it also being slapped.

      • Thank you for that. My view is that The Church of Scientology is no longer itself, it is really the Church of No Scientology.
        Fundamental to Scientology itself is the tech of L.Ron Hubbard. I think that the application of computerized programs to neaten up grammar and make the materials more dumbed down, have created an alter-is which means the garbage will persist and persist. Anyone who has studied and worked with actual LRH materials when looking at the “new” altered stuff soon sees that it is not “Ron”.
        There are questions which are raised from all this.
        Who is David Miscavige working for ?
        What was the deal he must have entered into – the deal whereby his part of the action is the destruction of the Church?
        As LRH has said before in many ways … many governments have worked extensively to seize and obtain the tech. We are in a world today which is falling under increasing GLOBAL controls. My question: Is that the cartel or group that DM is working with.? The evidence all points that way.
        If one looks to China and Russia and the Sino-Soviet Axis, the dumbing down of America and much of the rest of the world, and then looks to the internal actions of these countries which few see. Any group or any person who has his own mind and pursues his own beliefs is a threat. See the handling of Christians and the Falun Gong in China.
        I believe we as independent Scientologists are often too wrapped up and interiorized by the despicable alterations, injustices and betrayals, on and on and on …. all related to DM. What is really happening is a political action. The action of neutralizing Scientology.
        What is politics ? … nothing else except the action of securing economic interest,. HERE is where we are looking at the nub of what this mess is all about.
        As people who have experienced and used the tech of LRH and as his tech shows … it is all about spiritual freedom, the real bridge, the state of OT and helping others .
        We are dealing with different games.
        The people who deal with politics are those with vested interests. We find them in governments, in political parties and mostly in the major international cartels. These people care little for spiritual freedom. In the main part people are animals, in their view
        Thus from their view the action is simple – Eliminate the Church.
        The Ideal Orgs program is simply the action of impoverishing active Scientologists to weaken their economic bases. The IRS recognition was a ploy whereby government could obtain and monitor the mailing lists and identify potentially active and powerful individuals who are likely to make trouble in the event of any GLOBAL activities that are unethical or contra survival.
        I am sure you get my gist.
        The prime purpose of the SEA ORG was to put ethics in on the 4th Dynamic. It appears that they have failed to maintain their own security, the evidence of this is the dwindling activities of a group that has turned in on itself, while its betrayer continues to proclaim his own genius. Is he literate ?
        If no one is telling him what to do… well then he must be telling himself

  14. As a Scientologist you are in for a good bit of sec checking if you dare to look on the internet. So who is going to look at this new site except us and Larry Byrnes, who has said publicly “I will die for the current management of Scientology” while in his free time ranting on about major financial conspiracies in the world of finance and simultaneously missing the conspiracy under his very nose where Scientology has been hijacked and like the rest of the zealots ,he cant see it !
    The little girl who is running this new site should know that we know a lot more than she realises . So expose away but make very sure its accurate. Also realise that the Corbett’s have great value to many of us who they have assisted and befriended. We have seen with our own eyes the good works they have done over many years and we are not trying to live on R15.75 per week ,while in terror of being RPFed.We too have read the Simon Bolivar Policy and we are not paid slaves at R15.75 p.w. (on occasion) so we are capable of real action if required.
    I suggest we not help create this new site.
    It would be different if it were not simply a church propaganda exercise and genuine debate was allowed.

  15. “……or any official comments from the church”.

    from the looks of that blog, it seems you’ve now received an official response from the church.

    and i might say, its the same old, tired, predictable, smearing…..attack the messenger crap. what a shock.

    they’re as predictable as a swiss watch. a one trick pony.

    read the blog and see the tech in action, see HOW they confront and shatter suppression.

    that blog is by official scientologists, no doubt sanctioned by the organization.
    witness the example the “most ethical people on the planet” set.
    the church’s tech is in action and on display for all to see.
    judge it for yourself.

  16. Wow, what an informative site, so apparently people have heard the buzz about GAGII and have rushed back in to hand over even more cash.

    They must have found some more ‘hidden data’ in one of LRH’s 45 million sheds that they never knew was there.

    Believable…. NOT!!!

  17. “That” blog is not a platform for two-way comm but rather a megaphone attached to a recording of the same old gumpf. And I’m getting too old and wise to be a foot soldier any longer.

    With regards to the robots wired on kool aid there is no reasoning. The church is attempting to dazzle the remaining diehards with piercing dramatic music, flashing lights and pretty packs. Staff will be told to report any and all BI public (and staff) immediately to HCO as “we’re engaged in a war!” It does not matter if it’s a war on the reactive mind, the enemy, the psychs…..we’re always engaged in a war! See little green Martians much? And Just a whiff of resistance and you’re a blimp on their radar. Even as a staff member you want to stay under the radar as you desperately try vaporise those unwanted disagreeing thoughts as the insane orders continue to pour in.

    I empathise with the staff as their only reprieve is to report on outpoints otherwise it’s meter checks and then OW write ups or sec checks for those who fail and that can be a tough one to pass as out-TRs, out-ARC from the meter checker can dirty up needles anyway especially if you’re being intimidated by stone-faced Sea Org members flanking the meter checker – true story.

    How terribly unjust this has all become, good people bleating on each other to show their unwavering support so they too can “go free” while carelessly abandoning their personal integrity.

    Perhaps it’s time to walk away, the fresh air will do me good when I take my first step out of that prison cell. To be able to think freely, speak freely and have an opinion is worth more to me than the lure of OT VIII and “eternity” waiting for me inside this imploding mess we call our church. Who could afford it anyway? And now even training/retraining is unaffordable. I like pretty packs but I’d rather have the old Polly Street Org and open conversation than bling.

    • It feels soooo good to be free of all of what you said above. Your eternity will be there when you get to it. There are places where you can continue to get auditing, study courses and meet nice people who are scientologists. See this blog and countless others to find your way to what you are looking for. It’s all there 🙂

      • The more I walk along this path the more I am feeling dePTSed and FDSed not just about Scientology/the church but also with regards to the world out there. There are many good people making valuable contributions. LRH tech is important but its use is limited in an arrogant and suppressively controlled environment as we experience it today. So happy for you Karin and I wish you continued success and happiness. I shall take advantage of what is available for me when the time comes. I look forward to it.

      • When I walked away from all things Scientology all those years ago, I feared the world was full of dipshits and low toned persons.

        I was wrong.

        The world is full of wonderful people with amazing stories to tell, people who are friendly, engaging and fun to be with, and who for the most part don’t have hidden agendas.

        I haven’t met any SPs out here yet either.

  18. That blog is badly written by people who actually have no clue as to what is really going on. These guys really need to use LRH policy in the correct context. Their pathetic attempt at clutching straws clearly isn’t going very far.

  19. Someone called Travers Harris has posted the following and more all over the internet:
    “Someone posted a message on the South African message board on how evil DM is and that he hijacked Scientology and is doing all these evil things but what this guy did not know was that LRH in actual fact created what DM is now doing.”
    Firstly the person who posted this had several friends who were there at the time with LRH.These friends related the situation in great detail many years ago.What LRH did in his research (and it was research) may or may not meet with approval. There definitely were casualties. Had I been there I may well have now been as pissed off as Travers.What is extremely real to me is that the good LRH did so heavily outweighs the bad, that I can forgive him a lot.
    When LRH was around there were outnesses but when one got into trouble one could go to him and get it sorted out. Again I have a number of friends who did this and were undeclared or whatever the issue was, was handled.
    I believe the whole point of all our protest is because what LRH did/created/discovered has been perverted to serve another purpose. That’s a little different from “Oh well LRH created it” . He may well have but the intent and purpose was different from its current use.
    I see little purpose in commenting on these blogs if one is so anti LRH.Why would someone who blames LRH for so many bad things even still be around? It escapes me.However as LRH says we have freedom of speech so Travers is entitled to express his views. I on the other hand am not the least bit interested in LRH bashing. The gains I have had from Scientology are priceless to me and had LRH not lived I would have missed out severely.
    The day I find myself with a hostile attitude towards LRH or Mary Sue is the day I will remove myself from the company of Scientologists.
    For heavens sake lets stop the LRH bashing and build a better Bridge. (Data and anecdotes about LRH are not the same thing as showing him up as a bad person.) Tarnish the founder and you tarnish the subject….and the purpose of that is???

    • Fair enough Joshua but I do think Travers has something to add. He has sent us his story of why he was declared and we hope to publish it soon. I’ll leave it to him to respond but it will serve us to see how the seeds of this situation were sown.

    • Joshua,

      Travers is not wrong. It is an easily demonstrable fact that almost everything Miscavige is currently being (correctly) accused of are actions started by Hubbard himself. Every single one. The primary difference is that LRH had charm and charisma, whereas Miscavige has very little.

      The stated purpose of this blog is to get a group of folks back into comm. There is also the hope that the group can salvage something out of the Tech and do something decent with it. I believe that if you are going to try that, it is vital you confront and understand the nature of the man who founded the Tech, and what his intentions were. “Look, don’t listen” applies here 100% – don’t read and listen to what Hubbard said his intent was, look at his actual products and actions. Scientologists are very prone to assuming that Hubbard meant the best for them, very few actually look at the man’s life and deeds.

      I know this is hard, I’ve been there. I’ve defended the subject and tried to argue the good fight, and I have a 27 year history with it. I’m also not into LRH bashing for the mere sake of it, but I cannot ignore the facts out there.If you want to make something god out of this subject, you must really confront this angle.

      A good start is to do real historical research, not what is in “My Philosophy”. Do you realise that everything LRH said about his early life pre-1950 is a complete total manufactured lie? None of that shit happened. his grandfather didn’t own 1/4 of Montana, he never travelled extensively in China, he never mapped Alaska, he was never a war hero and there was no Japanese submarine to be sunk with depth charges. He never saw combat and was not wounded under fire (his injury was a duodenal ulcer and he already had poor eyesight since childhood).

      This is all backed up by LRH’s own diaries written in his own handwriting, as found in Creston (I think) by Gerry Armstrong, subseqently authorized to manage the writing of the first official LRH biography, subsequently hounded through the court system when CSI figured out what it was he had actually found.

  20. The squirrels and SPs will not win.

    Not quite sure what they consider “Winning”. I guess in their anyone practicing Scientology outside the walls of the CO$ is a squirrel, although it’s actual definition as illustrated in the Tech Dictionary deals with the application of it. In view of the fact I have moved up several OT levels in a span of a couple of years after having gone nowhere in the CO$ for 20, I can safely say I, and many others like myself are for the first time in decades wining all the way.

    We will expose their sordid motives, we will find their crimes and use the most formidable weapon that any one of them cannot defeat: the truth.

    The truth is auditors trained and preclears audited. Taking a good look around into the backyard of the CO$, the ugly truth is that neither has been made … just thought I would point out an item of importance. To make grandiose postulates to go oppterm with squirrels, or shall we say, those not in accord with the alter-is of the official church, will hardly achieve any of the above.

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