Take us to your leaders. Oh, wait. Never mind.

where-are-they-nowThe email below is infuriating. The senior leaders of the church have been missing for a decade. The only who has been seen in recent years is Guillaume Lesevre who showed up briefly at a couple Int events.

Late last year just prior to the launch of the “Greatest event in Scientology”, the Golden Age of Tech Phase II there was a conference for all Snr C/S’s on the planet and for all ED’s on the planet. This is the first time in YEARS that such conferences have been called. Clearly important.

Yet, neither Guillaume Lesevre (ED International) or Ray Mithoff (Snr C/S International) were present.

This quite in addition to Heber Jentzsch the much beloved President of the church. What about Mark Yaeger? Mark Ingber? These names and more were once the stars of the Scientology community. A group of people it was easy to have faith in. All we are left with today is a tatty dictatorship.

The photo above makes the point. This email further exacerbates the issue. A interview about the wonderful L’s given by a nameless, faceless “Snr C/S International”.

From: FSC ANZO [mailto:fscanzo@flag.org]
Sent: 21 January 2014 09:22 AM
To: undisclosed-recipients:
Subject: AN INTERVIEW WITH SENIOR C/S INTERNATIONAL ON THE FLAG ONLY L RUNDOWNS.

Hello Everyone,

This weeks enlightenment on the famous L Rundowns.

AN INTERVIEW WITH SENIOR C/S INTERNATIONAL ON THE FLAG ONLY L RUNDOWNS.

PART I

SOURCE: There is no other series of rundowns that more personifies Flag than the fabulous L Rundowns. What can you tell us about these rundowns? What is it that makes the L Rundowns different from any other auditing?

Snr C/S Int.: The L Rundowns are extremely direct auditing. They penetrate very directly into the person’s case and get straight to the root of things that are causing the person trouble, tur­moil or dismay in life and totally gets rid of them. When LRH researched the Ls in the first place, he was searching to find the source of insanity, and in the early 1970s he made a major break-through on this. By insanity, I don’t mean just someone who you might think of as psychotic or crazy. It’s something you would find, to a greater or lesser degree, in just about anyone. Even a Scientologist who is normally doing really well case-wise and is surviving well, can have certain things that are inexplicable to him. There are certain things about his behavior that he can’t quite sort out. And there are certain things about his other dynamics that can cause him a lot of turmoil -for instance with his 2nd Dynamic, or with groups he’s involved in. Or simply areas he knows he can be doing better in – he could be a lot more powerful but he’s not. He’s keep­ing himself back. So even to that degree it’s insanity. Ron researched this out and he found the exact mechanism that’s at the bottom of it and how to spring this loose and blow it to smithereens. That’s what makes the Ls different from the Grades or Dianetics or other types of auditing. This addresses directly this mechanism that the thetan is using to keep from being sane and handles it so it’s gone – period!

SOURCE: We’ve heard about the beginning of the L Rundown research, but what was it that prompted LRH to get started on this line of discovery?

Snr C/S Int.: In the early 1970s, on board the Apollo, LRH called for pc folders from pcs who had a particular characteristic in common. They would go in session, get a terrific gain, and then promptly lose it. Or they would start doing really well in life and then immediately go into a personal slump. He wrote an assessment, a list of motivators, to be run on this pilot group of pcs. Next LRH compiled a second list for these same pcs, this one made up entirely of overts. LRH discovered that running motivators off the case first unbalanced the flows of the bank and stirred up associated overts. Then when an auditor assessed the second list of overts, the pc’s cause had moved up and up and the overts on the case came rolling off. The more overts off the case, the more the pc’s confront and cause level escalated -a true reversal of the dwindling spiral. These two lists – the motivators and overts – make up the first two rundowns of L 10 and in fact are called L10-1 and L10-2.

SOURCE: Why are there three different Ls? Couldn’t all of the data have been put into one set of rundowns?

Snr C/S Int.: LRH was looking for a definition of “psychosis” – a real definition that would open the door to a handling. And in 1970, he wrote a very famous Case Supervisor Bulletin, C/S Series 22, entitled Psychosis, wherein he defines insanity as: “INSANITY IS THE OVERT OR COVERT BUT ALWAYS COMPLEX AND CONTINUOUS DETERMINA­TION TO HARM OR DESTROY.” LRH. With THIS definition, LRH opened the door to a handling – by simply locating those areas in the bank where a being started to stop things and then through precise auditing techniques, as-ising those moments. Further research located intentions which commanded a being to harm or destroy. LRH uncovered the WHO behind these false intentions: The psychs up and down the whole track. Let me hasten to add that before you get the idea that this has all been done TO you and you had nothing to do with it, above all things, you are CAUSE and you’ll find out just exactly how you are cause as you do your Ls. There are three Ls which address these hidden intentions, and because of the struc­ture of the bank, each L has a different approach to the core of aberration. Factually, every being on the planet needs all THREE L Rundowns and the sooner you do all three Ls the faster you’ll move up The Bridge. You’ll start accomplishing your goals at a rate that is faster than you’ve experienced in lifetimes.

There is more to come..

I am here to help you get to where you want to go on the Bridge!

Regards,.

Sabine Peschken

Flag Service Consultant Anzo & Africa

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62 thoughts on “Take us to your leaders. Oh, wait. Never mind.

  1. This point you are bringing up was probably amongst the very first indicators I had that something was amiss when I was still in. I knew many of these Int execs personally, saw them around a lot in the 90s doing inspections and coming around handling things. Then, gradually, I started seeing less and less of them. Then issues started appearing without any names attached to them, just post titles. And they stopped showing up at Int Events. It was all COB’s show. And when I started asking questions, no one had any answers.Nor did they seem to even notice. It was Orwellian. For me, this started around 2003 or so, which I believe is when things started getting really weird uplines from what I’ve read.

    On-lines Scientologists don’t even notice this. They are too blinded by their slavish devotion to Miscavige to notice, or too new to Scientology to even care about “old execs they never heard of.” It’s only us from the Old School who are aware of this sinister aspect of disappearances from uplines. And it is this, more than anything else, that actually made me believe the stories about The Hole and what sort of tortuous situation these old execs must be caught up in. Because what other explanation is there for the total disappearance of ED Int, Snr C/S Int, WDC Chairman, every single WDC member, every single Int Management Exec Committee member, Int Finance Dir, RTRC Dir, etc etc etc. Int Management is supposed to have at least 100 people up there running the show. But it’s all Miscavige. Everything is about Miscavige. No one is doing anything but Miscavige.

    Scientologists need to wake up. They are in a hypnotic trance of irresponsibility, allowing themselves to live in a total bubble of deceit. Thanks to this blog for showing up another aspect of the lie that is RCS.

  2. Yes I sat bolt upright when you do your research
    Top RTC Executives got rid of or left the Sea Org.
    WISE Executives – Narconon Execs and countless
    C/ses – Nots auditors etc.etc and perhaps we should
    make a list with everyone contributing to who they know
    in the various top ranking posts including Auditors.
    The stats internationally of highly trained Executives
    who have been declared.

    I will bet my last dollar it surpasses Auditors made
    cannot count full OT’s as they have not had the tech
    to produce this stat!

    This is what really peeeves me off is the overt products
    so many OT’s dramatizing weird shit or having to deal
    with body somatics and then invalidating themselves
    thinking they are no case gain or PTS to who – nothing
    on their lines EXCEPT being subjected to OUT TECH
    and the SUPREMO SP OF ALL TIME – COB on their lines!

    The sad thing is they think they are having a nightmare
    and when they wake up they cannot believe it’s true so they
    go back to SLEEP!

  3. As you said. Infuriating. What is even more frustrating is how this “nameless” “C/S” cannot even get the definition of Psychosis vs Insanity correct. Per the Tech Dictionary, two entirely different definitions and different case problems. And yet this “guru” is lumping both words into a sentence as if they’re one and the same.

    And what’s this “when Ron was looking for blah blah he did so and so……..” recounting stories of what Ron did and thought – as if this person was there? We all know that anyone who personally worked with Ron is in the hole, dead, declared or gone so how does he know this?

    Scientology is now entering the age of “folk stories passed down through generations by the elders” Next thing we know people will be attributing the discovery of the wheel to Ron – what’s worse, no-one will dare challenge it.

  4. I have seen people that apparently did real good after the L’s and I have seen the exact opposite. I knew a real nice lady in the Seattle area and she was considered one of the best auditors in our area. She was regged hard for the L’s and the person regging her actually loaned her some money and she borrowed a lot of money from others. After her L’s she went into a gambling binge and never paid any of the money back. She was declared PTS types C as I recall.
    The L’s are a huge money maker for Scientology but buyer beware.

    • Did you know that there are 12 new Class XII auditors on their internships as I type this, specifically to audit the Ls? They are auditing the Flag staff on the Ls and Super Power to get through their internships. Super Power was meant for the staff first, then the public and then the government. I saw an LRH issue on this, sorry that I can’t say where so don’t quote me. Having said that, I’m sure of this data as LRH’s. I may rummage through my literature (yes, I have some still) and will let you know when I do.

      Big money spinners, Ls and Super Power.

      Does Super Power need a Class X11 too? I’m asking as I don’t know.

      • I don’t think Super Power needs Class XII auditing.
        I think L’s type auditing is the type that the cob would want. The people that get it are wealthy in most cases and only flap once in a while.

    • I noticed when the senior execs were no longer presenting events. I asked my friend, Where is ED Int, and at the IAS event, where was Heber Jentzsch, and no CS Int at the Auditor Day’s event? I remember we decided that they were all on their OT XI and OT XII. What a joke, they hadn’t had ANY auditing, not the Grades, not Clear. Perhaps Sec Checking.

      This was my first big shock realising that Int Management was untrained and not OTVIII or OEC/FEBC! Talk about having a stable datum knocked from under my feet.

      • True. I was at an event in LA and one of the last int guys I saw actually speaking at an event spoke of the conditions of existence. Be, do have? Nope. He was talking about the conditions. I tried tracking this down and found some conflicting references to conditions being those of existence but mostly referred to by LRH as operating states. Conditions of operation. Correctly. I was thrown by this, thinking the int guys are untrained.

      • Oh please do, Happy Chappie! Ask the name of the Sr. CS and maybe it will make one SO member start to look!

  5. The C of S sure likes to create mystery sandwiches. And they always give out an absolute minimum of real information, so you are forced to assume a lot.
    (If the L’s were so necessary for everyone, why were they not made more available?)
    You assume, and if you are wrong, it is your fault because it is your assumption. Talk about ‘Plausible Deniability’.

  6. Once again we can see a cleverly worded email which encompasses “everyone”. That’s right folks, everyone needs to do “this” rundown

    As you can see from this promo,it is exactly like all other promo. Just take out “Ls” and put “NOT” in its place or “NED”, or “super power”, or “False Purpose Rundown”. It will still read the same.

    But in actuality, this email(like all promo) tells you NOTHING. It’s vague, just as the church wants it to be.

    I recall a conversation I had with a friend, some 30 years ago. I was trying to sell him a book. He asked me a question: “If scientology has all the answers to mankinds problems, then why does Hubbard not give it away for free?” I tried to explain economics etc,He replied ” its a business about making money!”

    It took me 20 years to understand this, while my friend continued on with his spiritual journey.

    • Yes, and another question asked umpteen times is, Why is it so expensive? Yeeow, what a lot of glib answers we had for that one.

      Why is it so expensive? Why is it such an effort and struggle to get onto the OT levels? How many Scientologists, Clears who are told to move swiftly to OTIII, feel totally invalidated that they just can’t manage it?

      The OT levels are inaccessible to most of the general public – because of the cost, financial mostly.

      • Why is it so expensive? Ask also, why has staff pay always been so low?
        Public pay a fortune for services, staff live like slaves and the money disappears.

  7. Disgusting and evil. Miscavige should be in imprison himself, a real one operated by the US Government, not the prison he has these people in at Hemet. Maybe he can share a cell with Warren Jeffs?

  8. I was told by OSA staff the reason they are not there is they are old and are doing less stressfull jobs, it would be good to get word from these people Straight from the horses mouth ,

      • The million dollar question! If these execs are “too old and have been shifted to less stressful jobs,” then who and where are their replacements?|???

    • Neptune – I am sorry, but what you have been told by OSA staff is not true.

      I have witnessed myself personally, what occurred to each of these executives, and they are nowhere close to any pleasant and peaceful retirement.

      In the mid 90’s Miscavige started a campaign to target every executive within Scientology that was worth his salt. Essentially, it has been a campaign of removing any position of power, and thus taking out any possible contender for the control of the church.

      This includes big names such as Heber, Marc Yager, Guillaume Leserve, Ray Mitthoff, Greg Wilhere, Bitty Miscavige, Diana Hubbard, Jens Urskov, Sherry Murphy, and many more.

      All of the WDC, CMO Int and Exec Strata executives were prevented from standard management actions starting in the late 90’s, with a never-ending stream of cross orders. Basics such as strategy review and weekly stat analysis was knocked out and has not been in since. The LRH program 339R was knocked out with the Miscavige “Ideal Org” program. This was LRH’s birthday game, and it has been perverted to a twisted money-making game instead.

      As of the late 90’s all executives and staff were held in their building, and by the early 2000’s there were bars placed on the windows and the Hole was born.

      With endless hours of emotional and physical torture, these executives are about as retired as a beaten hostage kept in solitary confinement for years. When I last saw them they were gaunt, hallow-eyed, and introverted.
      What makes the situation worse is that if a bus was driven to the gates and they were invited to get on board, the majority (if not all) would refuse, as they firmly believe that they are the suppressives. They believe, after years of indoctrination, that they have been the cause of the constant problems for Miscavige, and they believe that if they walked away, they are abandoning a cause that they have been working for more than 30/40 years . Most of them have nowhere to go to, having lost family and friends, and cut off from society for decades.

      Over the last several years I have gone up and down the tone scale on the whole situation. Having been there personally, seeing it, and knowing what is occurring on a continued basis, I could not stick my head in the sand and pretend it has nothing to do with me.

      I was asked by another former RTC staff member who I would want to save out of that place (Int), and I started a list. As the list of names grew and grew, and the tears flowed, I realised that there was no one that I would not save from that suppressive and oppressive environment.

      And the first step in achieving that, is to set up a safe place for dedicated Scientologists, outside of the church perimeters. Thus Milestone Two was born.

      Sorry to burst the bubble – but no – there is no happy retirement for these executives. And Miscavige has not even bothered to replace them on their key posts. Heck, the corrupted church of Miscavige has to be run only and solely by him – so other posts, functions and executives are merely threats in his eyes.

      The current church “management” is Miscavige, through an entourage of support henchmen, who do his every bidding and bypass every command channel in the process. Thus the Danger condition continues….

      • PS. Sabine Peschkin is the author of this email above, and she is a living example of what happens to effective executives, She was the CO WISE International for many years, and was then promoted to the Int Finance Office and was the Int Finance Director before she was nuked by Miscavige.

        It is fascinating that she has now been made a reg to get more money to Flag. Offloaded from the Int base and added to the money-making machine, she is now working to somehow back up DM and get back in good with him. Problem is, once you are busted by DM you can never get back in his good books. It is like having a X on your forehead, with permanent marker. No matter how many liability formulas you do, you are never back in good graces with the corrupt Miscavige.

        Ugh.

      • It is unthinkable, unfathomable and utterly heartbreaking to think that these stellar people have been reduced to a state where they are now incapable of raising themselves. Black Dianetics in the truest sense.

        When I read its definition many years ago I thought of it as some sort of black application where you hung a guy by his feet and then audited him or something. Boy, have I since then been disabused of my naive notion. What has been done to those once stellar people IS Black Dianetics. My tears are flooding for it too.

        But Black Dianetics doesn’t end there.
        Just think of the stress placed on solo NOTs auditors, their constant sec checking. Just think of the three-swing FN that overruns every win you once had pushing you straight into self-inval and bringing the mass back in. Just think of the overt running surreptitiously introduced into simple three beginning rudiments, where it doesn’t belong.

        “Black Dianetics: There are those who, to control, resort to narcotics, suggestion, gossip, slander – the thousand overt and covert ways that can be classified as Black Dianetics.” Tech Dictionary

      • Great feedback Lana and also about Sabine. I remember her name now that I think of Wise Int. How people are trashed and wasted by this regime.

    • Neptune, it would be good to get the word straight from these execs but that will never happen. They’re in The Hole or some similar punishment.

      DollarMorgue, Jane Doe, and Lana M. are right! If you don’t believe them then try to get word from these execs yourself. Not just something in writing that could have been written by someone else but something verifiable.

      Of course if you pursue it too much you’ll be declared too or, minimally, sent to a Sec Check and Ethics at your own cost.

      • Seems I touched a nerve on this subject, I am not bothered by sec check what what’s , or what is what. If DM is having his cock sucked on weekends and Tuesdays movie night by aka sausage gobbler, in the naked world he would get a clap, a big hand , bravo! And the fact he sloped threw LRH hands as he has, LRH could see the future and would have see this so what was his purpose for it. To show that real OT s would bring the leader down and that the tec is self protecting and well that mans soul is tough and all freedom comes at a cost. I say F..k OSA and DM

      • Hi thank you very much for the detailed brief about the legends , it is a sad fact that these mega watt people have been moved , twisted and not replaced , and worst of all not treated as with kindness respect and loyalty that they so rightfully have erned, the depth of DM s betral of his key people is fantastic.

  9. A friend of mine spoke to Heber when he was allowed out for his son’s memorial service at CCint.
    Heber told him he was retired , getting auditing and writing . Basically taking it easy….
    I saw pictures of him at that event , Heber is in his 70s , still an able body.
    I don’t think my husband will retire at 70 , but even that is besides the point , it didn’t make any sense.
    Again this is second hand as I was’t there , but a pretty reliable source.
    What was heartbreaking about the picture was that it looked like he was having a fun reunion with his old friends not a memorial for a son gone too soon.
    It looked like a show and it probably was. Sad.

    • “Heber told him he was retired , getting auditing and writing . Basically taking it easy….”

      Translation: “I’m being ruthlessly sec checked and when I’m not in session I’m writing up my O/Ws of all my horrible crimes!” He lied about taking it easy.

      Yes, very sad indeed.

  10. There is an interesting choice of the word “Source” used by Sabine to presumably name the interviewer of the non-existing currently “Snr CS Int” presumably Ray Mithoff. Source to me is LRH and this email shows is no longer the case or viewpoint in Scn Inc or COBology.

  11. More BS from the Mecca of Technical Deception.

    The Ls were originally called the “Executive Rundowns” and were delivered to Scientology Executives on the Apollo who were on the FEBC to put ’em more at cause over their posts.

    Long story short.

    They seemed to have worked because what followed was Scientology’s biggest period of expansion.

    Anyhoo….

    If the Ol’man wanted “everybody” to do them. He would have included them as part of the Grade Chart but he didn’t so there.

    Another lie from the lie factory the Church of Scientology has become.

    Sheeesh

    What popcorn box did this mysterious “Snr C/S Int” get his cert from?

    True Ron was doing a lot of research on insanity back then, causes of but the rundowns he developed designed to handle this condition were the Introspection Rundown and XDn.

    The Ls were supposed to be OT booster RDs and based on research he was doing back then on levels above OT VIII.

    Seems I know more about the scene back then than this so called “Snr C/S Int”. Maybe they should give me the post 😉

    Anyhoo…

    Seems this C/S has a fixation on overts which seems to be a general trend in the Church these days. Actually the Ol’man made the discovery back in ’68 that only running motivators unbalanced the case which was when he came up with Triple Grades which were immediately put into use. Unfortunately he only wrote down the Major Grades processes that would be part of every Grade and Auditors assumed that you only ran these.

    But that’s another story.

    Anyhoo…

    Back to the Ls which Ron personally bequeathed to Flag as one of the few “Flag only RDs” because he felt Flag was the only Org capable of delivering them. This is covered in at least 2 REDs entitled “Why Something New?” and “Life Repair Block”.

    Obviously this vaunted “Snr C/S Int” never read these issues or maybe he had one or maybe several mis-us on them because what he is saying about “everybody” having to do the Ls is just total blather from someone in a position of “authority” just like practically everything else emanating from the Scientology Death Star these days in order to get what’s left of the rubes out there to buy a high priced rundown that most people are never going to need unless they’re a highly placed high powered executive.

    Why am I not surprised?

    Seems the total effort of the Church these days is to divert people from the actual Grade Chart or to quickie it in some way so it isn’t actually being done (like these 6 magical processes which are supposedly going to make a Expanded Grades Completion…yeah sure…never mind the fact that the Ol’man says “dozens” for each grade… but what happens if the “magic 6” don’t read or F/N at least 3 times?…anyhoo) or to slow down training to a virtual stop by including the “Basics” and an Emeter course which includes two lengthy drills most lower level auditors are ever going to use and I betcha they still haven’t figured out how to make a Class IV who can do the full R3SCA Rundown without having to the NED course first which according to the “New Grade Chart Streamlined” is now known as Level V.

    Never mind the complexity of trying to run right side engrams on a case who has never had any left side handling to this point including drugs.

    Riddle me that Bat C/S?

    Not to mention the fact that when you slow down training by setting up an endless runway like the “Basics” and the “Emeter” you are according to the RED “Orders for Immediate Compliance” are destroying the subjects of Dns and Scientology.

    Since you as Snr C/S are ultimately responsible for the quality of training as well as auditing according to the C/S series.

    Maybe that’s the whole point and what is buried within all the bloviation how everybody should divert themselves off the Grade Chart to do the Ls is the clue to your actual intentions toward Scientology.

    I mean if you were a real Snr C/S you wouldn’t be spouting some hidden data line about how Ron came up with the Ls but would have referred to actual references instead.

    But anyhoo…

    Interesting that you only bring up one reference and that may be the reference that gives us the key to who is controlling the Church these days.

    Which is basically the insane:

    “INSANITY IS THE OVERT OR COVERT BUT ALWAYS COMPLEX AND CONTINUOUS DETERMINA­TION TO HARM OR DESTROY.”

  12. Aside for every executive (other than Miscavige) who’s missing in the photo, I have to laugh at the supposed tech of L10. PCs aren’t holding onto their gains. Well! It’s not that the tech is some dreamed up piece of crap without any verifiable proof of its effectiveness. NO! It’s that the PCs have whole track overts! Look at the lists here and you tell me they aren’t introverting.

    So these poor people are sent, at their own incredibly high expense, to run out their “overts”. Almost certainly these whole track overts are imaginary and do nothing more than screw over the PC. He becomes submissive and malleable.

    I’ve know a few people who did L10 including one close family member. It was a sad sight to see them try to get through this mind fuck. The family member was ALWAYS blaming himself afterward including endless O/W write-ups when ever he was “keyed-in” again. An OT keyed-in? I thought we got rid of that with the state of Clear!

    Lastly, that Flag is promoting the Ls again may demonstrate they aren’t bringing in enough cash with GAT2 and Super Power.

    • This is exactly my thought, Spectator, no money coming in.

      How can there be? No auditors auditing pcs up the Bridge, the public, if any are on course, are still on the Basics and Lectures, no more money coming in from that. The push to get the ACCs has grinded to a halt.

      There may be a trickle from the sheeple redoing the purif and one or two other courses. There hasn’t been an IAS fundraising event for a while in Johannesburg and fundraising for Ideal Orgs has slowed down considerably. There seems to be a struggle to get the money for the Joburg North org. On Saturday, 18 January, there was a Barn Dance at an expensive hotel but no word that the money needed was collected – “we are so close!”

      I think enthusiasm is petering out or is this just wishful thinking on my part? Or are people indeed waking up to the lunacy or are just running out of money or fed up with being asked time after time for their dosh, never ending – more wishful thinking on my part?

      I honestly think that the cob is feeling somewhat desperate. I get the feeling that he’s losing his touch and knows it.

      • Agreed!

        I was talking with an LA friend and he said Celebrity Centre is doing well, but that’s the only org that’s doing so. Another friend drove by Pasadena Org around 5:00 pm last Thursday and not a single person was in sight. Although lots of videos were playing on the lavish video displays through the front windows.

        I think people are waking up. The Internet is Scientology’s worst enemy because it exposes all its fallacies. Years ago I was subtly aware of the problems and abuse, but the St. Petersburg Times 2009 expose, “Truth Rundown” brought the despicable behavior of Scientology to the forefront.

        COB is desperate and so he should be. Regardless, he has enough money stashed away that I doubt he’ll every be held accountable and brought to justice.

  13. Off topic, but I believe this matter will be of interest to the people in this community. I also believe it is of some importance. I’m sure Barbara’s mother would greatly appreciate any information anyone can provide.

    Where is Scientology keeping Barbara Cordova Oliver? Her 80 year-old mother wants to know.
    http://tonyortega.org/2014/01/21/where-is-scientology-keeping-barbara-cordova-oliver/#more-12755

    I understand this is a South African Independent Scientology blog. Still, I thought people here might have contacts, and might also want to know.

  14. I saw some L’s completions a few years ago. One guy came back from Flag – lost so much weight he looked like a refuge. He used to be good looking but after the L’s – looked pale, gaunt and strange. He shaved his head bald and just did not look good. He dumped his girlfriend ( a keeper), quit his job and moved to another city to get a similar job. That was about 4 years ago. THIS was his new life? I thought he was just not quite right after the L’s. THAT convinced me to not let Scientology mess with my mind!! I did not see anyone else who completed the L’s – look like they were powerful…just thought they were. Another guy borrowed a ton of money and went on a spending spree donating, buying big house, new luxury cars , spending (borrowing) tons of money for Bridge, buildings and IAS etc…he went bankrupt and lost home to foreclosure.

    The L’s – certainly a “new life” but not a good one!! When I was still in – I made a mental note to never do the L’s.

    Run from the L’s. Unless you see with your own eyes someone’s life changing for the better after the L’s and that state LASTING – don’t do any of that stuff. It is dangerous for your mental health!

    You can find the lists on Wikipedia – strange questions!! I believe they are elsewhere on the internet!! All of the stuff and nothing can be done about it! Go figure…DM’s stat!! LOL

      • Hi Ronnie, we try to give some leeway and allow, as much as possible, differing views. We are always loathe to censor and Idle Morgue has been a valuable contributor to this blog.

      • Thanks scnafrica for being fair-minded about criticisms and differing views of the tech. It seems that as long as we respect each other’s opinions and keep a civil tone in our writing we’ll heal some of the wounds inflicted on us all by modern Scientology.

      • No attack – I am just telling you what I observed. I was “in” and believed in the tech…I observed people acting strange after the L’s and their lives got worse…not better. If I had stayed in – I would have never, ever done the L’s! I just did not see anyone that did them do well after they finished. I did not try to figure it out back then…because I had no information on which to figure it out with. I believe most of the damaged people I witnessed while I was in was due more to the “connected to a suppressive and evil COB” – he has turned the group into robots that will crush reg, lie to get stats and throw their own family members under the bus…they seem to be under some type of spell they can’t break so they can SEE!!

        I also observed people coming back from Flag not doing well and muttering things like “I will never go back there again”. They got fleeced at the Mecca and that has been going on for a long time.

        I read the story about Maria Pia Gardini and how she was fleeced. She gave everything to the Church and was discarded like a piece of trash after she was bled dry!

        Debbie Cook and Dave Foster contributed to the motion! So shocking to find this out what happened behind the closed doors of the Registrar!

      • Idle, I’ve observed all of the same manifestations and weirdnesses that you have, over my forty years in the church. I’ve also observed people who seemed to come back to life before my eyes. People I held little hope for. I’ve experienced similar gains as some of those people, and I’ve also experienced the debilitating effects of squirrel tech practiced inside the church. In fact, I was a walking dead man for several years after a particular six week episode of “auditing” at ASHO in 2005.

        My life was also saved by the tech in that very same org in 1985.

        Thing is, I’ve seen enough over the years to know that Scientology delivers on its promises when applied strictly by the book. It can also cause great harm when applied in-expertly, or in an altered, bastardized form, such as what the church is doing today.

        It’s not Ron’s tech that is to blame for the crippled “OTs” we see today. Miscavige’s squirrel tech is to blame for that.

  15. For years I have found it strange that all the top executives were missing from the stage at events, presenting the fabulous news about Scientology´s innovation and expansion. Of course I and everone else outside the church know that they have either escaped or are in Miscavige´s special prison camp, called “The Hole”.

    And WHERE is Diana Hubbard? Isn´t it odd that she is never there – not even at “The Greatest Event on the Whole Track”?

    And of course, WHERE is Shelley Miscavige? Gone missing now for 8-9 years and noone within the church is reacting to this . And all the while her husband is fooling around with his secretary and nobody dares to consider it an overt.

    And David Miscavige is now the NEW SOURCE with people applauding him and clapping and cheering on him because he singlehandedly has created the greatest expansion ever in the history of Scientology and cleaned up ALL THE MESS LRH left behind.

    I say: WAKE THE F&#@K UP – AND LOOK!!!!

  16. Heber Jentzsch.,my former husband and father of my 27 year old deceased sopn Alexander Jentzsch has been a “provisionally”declared SP” on and off. incarcerated in the infamous SP Hole for years. He is a broken human being.
    http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/04/04/free-heber/
    I spoke with now exited Int base person who escorted bank after he was ordered to “Clean the bilges” of the prison ship Freewinds as a punishment 14 hours a day a few years ago. He was incoherent and in extremel;y rough shape mentally. He is 79 years old and was only allowed to see our son Alexander Jentzsch 11 times in 15 years because of David Miscavige incarceration.

    • Whew! What a mindboggling eye opener. It’s not that I haven’t heard stories like this before but it’s still hard to take, isn’t it.

      Scientology is supposed to be anti-drugs, anti-violence yet Jason was locked up, held against his will AND given drugs! Oh boy! Coming from anywhere else… But Scientology? Naaah! But it is. Our church.

  17. I have the feeling to be in a world up side down…
    People in this blog do comment the promo about L’s with more accurate data and specifics than the “in charge”…!!
    The valuable ones are out, and it’s a pity that the public in general cannot benefit their knowledge, their know-how, their skill…

    Wouldn’t it be of great influence that all indies act together to alert the world about the lot of the former top-execs ?

  18. In an interview with Chuck Beatty…
    “Marty Rathbun came out to the Int RPF two times, first to regroup the RPF after the Int RPF Bosun blew one time. And the second time Marty came to brief us Int RPFers about Ray Mitoff, when Ray arrived to the RPF. Ray messed up on executing the Golden Age of Tech, is what I remembered. I liked Ray. Always have. ”

    How is Mark Ingber doing? How did he do after being RPFed in 2000?
    “He looked okay and gung ho when he arrived to do the RPF. And he didn’t stay long, he got some auditing that revitalized him, and I think he got reprieved and returned to CMO Int by the end of 2000, I think that’s what happened.”

    Do you have any data on any big busts at INT Base?
    “No data. Just MY (Mark Yager), when he got busted in Jan 96, then RPFed later, and he graduated and is now back on post. Same with Ray Mitoff, RPFed and graduated and back on post, lated 90’s, back on post by the 2000 event, where both Yager and Mitoff spoke.”

  19. Definition of DM, alias Black Heart: “INSANITY IS THE OVERT OR COVERT BUT ALWAYS COMPLEX AND CONTINUOUS DETERMINA­TION TO HARM OR DESTROY.” LRH.

    And Sabine should review his promo as not to falsely portray interviews with Ray M when he has been held by Black Heart on The Hole for several years now. So, this is a flunk!

  20. Interesting comments. From a South African perspective, where is Norman Starkey?
    Where is Rena Weinberg?

    Rena has been missing for a while. She was President ABLE int and featured on the ABLE Int website. I have been told she is no longer on that website?

    Someone at Flag asked her husband where she is and he purportedly said “don’t go there”.

    Anyone have any data?

    It seems DM has to dumb-down everything to his level of incompetence. No trained execs around him. All yes-men with no tech. Suits him fine and matches his level of incompetence. Seems as though he does this with the Bridge too. He happy around the preclear objectives purif level.

    What a palooka.

    • The Starkey boys were infamous in their early days. Not afraid of using their fists to get orders carried out – specifically Norman. Norman was brilliant at delivering the PE course in Polly Street – had a high rate of re-signs. Rumour in South Africa was that Norman was bust after the fiasco of Battlefield Earth which DM blamed him for. Not sure of the validity of this.

      Owen arrived in South Africa in 2011 in very rough shape – some heart issue. I believe he and his wife Dorothy were fitness boarded and off loaded, Last I heard he has retired and is somewhere in the Eastern Cape (where he came from) – possibly gone back to family who would care for him. Another Sea-Org castaway that outlived his usefulness.

      Rena and Brian were seen at Joburg Org in 2011 – I saw them in the parking lot and they looked VERY uncomfortable being there. Bryan was almost bent over double (he always did walk with a bit of a stoop, but it was now even more pronounced). Rena just gave me a very uncomfortable smile and looked terrified that I might try engage her in a comm cycle. I had worked with her in the GO in the 70’s. She was in B1 and did all the “dirty tricks” work. I think they possibly came over to handle some family issue. Shortly after this one of my family members was on their way to Flag and happened to be sitting one row in front of them on the plane. No data on them since then. Perhaps back to the hole???

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