By ScnAfrica
See our earlier article Why this blog?
Some comments were made in a recent article on this blog which raised an issue which many just leaving the church run into.
With this in mind we felt it important to put forward our view of how this blog is evolving, its purpose and what we wish to see come of it.
The internet and the “blogosphere” can be tricky to negotiate especially when one is just taking the first tentative steps in looking outside of the church for information about it. Those who have taken this journey and have assumed a hat of helping others through it refer to this as “heading down the rabbit hole”.
There are several types people one encounters out here in the wild when it comes to Scientology:
- Those who are in the process of leaving and looking outside for the first time
- Those who have left but retain a certainty on gains they experienced and wish to continue the practice of Scientology in some form.
- Those who actively practice Scientology and are quite happy for others to practice in the way they see fit..
- Those who have left and wish to no longer practice or associate with the subject.
- The radical (but not official) Scientologists who attack other (non official) Scientologists for being out tech or non-standard.
- Those who have left who are bitter, angry and looking for a target. For them the entire journey of Scientology was a mistake they wish to erase.
- Those that have never been Scientologists but are active in exposing abuse and just want such abuse to stop.
- Those that wish to erase the name L. Ron Hubbard from history and believe that any practice of Scientology is toxic and ridiculously stupid. These are generally referred to as the haters.
Of course the above are loose generalisations and we accept that some will take exception to such labeling. This is how we perceive it to be as a rule. If we were to look at our desired readership it would be the first three types of people listed above.
There are venues on the internet for all types and, where appropriate, we have encouraged, through moderation, such people to find an alternative venue. Importantly we do not refuse or reject their right to think we are all bunch of brainwashed idiots. But of course we will enforce our right to believe they are wrong.
In the spirit of free speech and open communication, some of the most popular blogs by ex church members have given Scientology haters and critics a massively popular public venue to systematically invalidate the tech of Scientology, LRH, and the wins of those who’ve benefited from their usage of that tech.
The above was stated by Ronnie Bell in a comment a couple days ago and he makes a real and valid point. The more popular the blog the more likely these haters will look to stake a claim. Our policy has been to err on the side of liberal when moderating discussion. But our overall view is that the philosophy of Scientology has a role to play in this world so we do stand on the side of those who wish to be Scientologists. As our record has shown we do not shy away from controversy, criticism or questioning. In fact we like to encourage such.
It is inevitable that open communication will attract negative comment and communication. The tendency in individuals and in groups (most notably the church) the response to such is to shut down lines and channels of communication. This is a response of defeat. A response of victory is more communication.
We question our intentions and activities every day. Why are we doing this? What’s the “end game”? What type of articles should we run? In the end we have mostly gone with what the community of readers want, which is to say we run articles that get the most response and invite the most communication. In the last week we have opened up the blog to the community by inviting articles. We see this as a strong position going forward.
With that in mind we strongly encourage all communication. Even if such comm does not pass moderation it should not be seen as a rebuke but rather a necessary constant challenge to the moderators to inspect other viewpoints.
Ultimately the purpose is to make this blog irrelevant. With a community that has come from a strict, enforced no-communication culture this platform provides an outlet for communication. From experience in dealing with people who are leaving this is probably the most important factor – being able to openly, honestly and without fear communicate.
There will come a time when the church’s influence on those outside will abate, when it will have no affect. There will be a time when talking, questioning and criticizing is the norm. When that time comes, this blog will be irrelevant, it will have served it’s function and can be quietly retired.
And that is what we and this blog are about. Either disconnection is abolished, in which case the church we will reform itself (it is only disconnection that prevents this) or the church becomes so small and irrelevant that it’s influence cannot prevent open communication without fear on the outside.
Scientologists back in comm 
I feel that the category I fall most closely into is number two. The funny part about it is that I feel there are sub categories and I think I am in one. I have had many gains from Scientology training and processing. I don’t like labels so I don’t even like to label myself as a “Scientologist” because that means different things to different people.
I really don’t like the holier than though “Scientologists” who like to tell others what is standard and what isn’t.
The cult is the King of this type of behavior. They chop you up while they call it “standard tech”. I made it onto OT7 for about 6 years and I have had more auditing than most. As LRH says in Personal Integrity; what is true for you is what it true, etc, etc.
I personally believe that auditing will or could help the planet become saner, I have seen it applied in this way. I can see lots of people applying Scientology in the way they feel is best and I think there will be people who will like different approaches. You could have the group that is die hard LRH and have an office for him and even some groups that continue the Sea Org Navy stuff and some people will like that. Others might like a group with no Sea Org and no ethics and gain a big following.
LRH said many things, some contradict other things he said. I feel as long as Scientology is free to be applied it will keep expanding in some way or another. The day some Indie starts to be a little dictator and tries to stop what others are doing is one step closer to losing the subject. I do feel it is interesting to discuss some of the apparent contradictions of LRH writings. It could be considered a philosophical discussion and an application of the Creed of Scientology.
Here is an example: KSW series 1 talks about all the ways one should be stamping out squirreling. Then you have the Personal Integrity reference that says what is true for you is true. Therefore you may get the Freezone applying things a certain way and then another group attacking them for being squirrels. I think all of this type of activity is rather absurd. I feel if someone feels strongly about certain tech applications then he or she should apply them that way in his or her group and build that group and use reason to get others to see the validity of that application. Not go onto a blog and attack others for what they are doing.
I know a lot of this might seem like mindless blather, but it can be very confusing leaving a group that you devoted years of blood sweat and tears to and sometimes blathering about it can be helpful.
Hi i agree with you,
LRH did say that absolutes are not attainable.
Also i think LRH meant to be strict only in application of tech not genraly and socially as it is now…
Could be LRH was sometimes wrong, he himself said he could be wrong and that the only thing that matters in the end is : is a data applicable, can it do someting to improve?! change?! thats the only way to value data, per LRH. He was not a saint, he was a man and he himself went PTS. That dose not mean his work has no value, or he has no value.
Tony, I don’t think it sounds like blather. More like a sane, decent guy expressing a sane, decent opinion.
Les
Love your take on this Tony!
Blather on Tony! I agree with LDW. And I am glad to see the moderators define the type of people they desire on their blog, kind of like the demographic or target audience they are going for. Let the LRH haters go on the other sites. I have read the stuff that they so proudly give me links to, and then wait expectantly to see my hopes and ideals dashed against the rocks, they even smack their lips over the prospect of it. I say, go to the other blogs where people will appreciate you more for your views. And for the newly out or the fence sitters contemplating getting out, let’s not hit them between the eyes with all the “truth” and entheta at once and thus knock out their stable datums so fast that they return to the RCS to grab onto a stable datum. What got me out was reading sane but gentle things like Debbie Cook’s letter at first and then working up to the more hard core stuff later. That’s my two cents’ worth anyway.
I agree Cindy. Gradients, the thing that the cob said “were cancelled”.
Thanks LDW and Joe for the kind words.
This blog is a a breath of fresh air amongst the hate, lies and confusion both in and easpecialy out of the curch. The internat has become fertile ground for swaing seeds of hatred and devision between dissaffected, confused and wrongly acused so called supressives… By the real sp’s.
its good to know there is a vertual safehouse for us.
You have done more good than you can even imagine. The sanity you put but craeting this blog and leting scientologist communicate, and critic fairly (“There are rightnesses and wrongnesses in conduct society and life at large, but random, carping 1.1 criticism when not borne out in fact is only an effort to reduce the size of the target of the overt” – HCOB 21 jan 60, justification-) is wonderful.
This will continue to have an international ripple effect and continue to shape and mold a new community of true scientologists. One day after DM has imploded in one way or another, and the curch is left in shambles the true loyal officers will come back.
My stat as far as being moderated is running at about 60%
Maybe a tad more,
it seems scn Africa you are looking for a grade 2 completion , open com and free to talk about any thing with anyone!
I thought some how we were looking at some thing bigger,
The org execs talk openly about , c..k sucking, p…y pumping, what , an.s has had what put there, who’s died of what,
is the field proper zip mouthed?
Disconection is the inderviduals choice , not forced by church but advised if one wants gains and no counter postulate,
Ok any feed back on this would be magic thanks
Is the field
A true scientologist leaves no one behind even in the face of that machine gun called Declare and Disconnect.
Trueenuff
Feedback: Grade 0 – the ability to communicate to anyone about any subject
With a decent browser like Firefox or Chrome, anytime you type and see a red line it means the word is misspelled.
Gonesurfing, I’m guessing you’re American. No criticism meant but South Africans invariably don’t think in terms of the lower part of the anotomy so easily.
Yes it was a below the belt comment!
And some hard stiff thought went into that , I had to back track up and down my track to find the events ,
I am a stiff upper lipped British born, SA raised ,
But I consider my self one of prince Charles subjects,
And one of Mandelas sons,
Ah correction grade 0 not grade 2
Grade 0 covers open communication etc.
Actually you have missed the most important category of all. Those who break (or see through) the spell and replace it with facts and the truth about the subject and feeling betrayed and/or inspired set out to inform the ignorant and further enlighten those who are part way illuminated. These people can be ex-members or Never Ins, either way, their goal is to help people in need of it. Their weapon is information, their fuel is love of fellow man.
^^^This^^^…except I’m not sure it’s a more important category than the others and I am so not a fan of categories, scales, and pigeonholes, having been disabused of them by a bigoted parent and again by a sugar coated abusive cult.
On any given day you might see/hear me voice an opinion, along with emotion, about a particular topic, behavior, response, opinion, activity, etc., any one of which could fall in one or another of the categories listed in today’s blog post, or more. The exchange of ideas changes ideas.
Community is an ongoing balance. Too much structure kills community. Too little does the same.
With respect for your work here ScnAfrica, I think the word moderation was aptly chosen for forums.
First of all I am respectful to the ScnAfrica’s rules and regulations as the CREATOR of the blog. It’s his/her blog and the creator or originator calls the shots.
Now I will state my mission purpose of my Internet posts. I am solely a whistle blower, nothing more. I am in a unique position because of my experience, passion, know-how and expertise to uncover and reveal WHAT HAPPENED? !
There are huge amounts of Indies keeping it all going, writing up their successes and posting *THETA*.
This is not my hat. For the best years of my life, I did nothing but put Scientology on the map, deliver auditing for cents an hour, and produced like a dog with all the penalties that come in the Sea org ~~ no day off, rice and beans, no annual leave, not allowed another child (The *Church* killed my one and only child by cutting off my parental rights so he died of methadone and pneumonia) etc etc etc. I have passed the torch on for the KSW type postings and the KSW identity.
It is my destiny to lift up the curtains and reveal what lies beneath. If this not with the perimeters here I will happily move on. There are more places to post than I honestly have time for within a given day.
I am very partial to the great phrase (ironically enough in GRANITE at the entrance lobby of the Central Intelligence Agency.)
FOR YE SHALL KNOW THE TRUTH AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE.
My motto.
I think it has been clear that you are very welcome here Karen.
Yes, Karen. I believe I’m not the only one who loves your input. Please don’t go away.
Whistleblower FTW!
Karen makes a good point and sets an admirable example, living her life with action and transparency consistent with her goal. End the abuse.
There are massive numbers of people, thousands, perhaps tens of thousands who have left and spoken of abuses.
A list is being continually updated of people who have left the CoS and spoken out against the COS and its abuses: https://sites.google.com/site/biglistthatleftscientology/ showing 2,174 people as of today ,,, overtly speaking out under their own name. Some of us suspect there are 10+ under the radar for ever one going public.
Even more were never in but had family and friends harmed, or were touched in some way by stories they heard creating the need to act, or give those who have none a voice, and still others just looking for a good fight.
The playing field is not organized or controlled by a few. The CoS has kicked out more people than remain in, they have created more enemies than there are members. There trouble may be a text book example of the Chaos Theory; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory.
What is happening has reached a critical mass where it can’t be stopped.
My status is again a little different. I was born in, my children were born in. I was never in the subject for the purpose of gaining super powers or OT abilities. I thought I was making the world a better place, helping build a better future for humanity. 3 generations of effort from one family … the massive sacrifice so many of us know … and what general good had occurred from ours? None visible, especially when the cost and contribution were considered. I now know my and my families financial and other support was used to create damage to people of good will, our donations, staff service and volunteer work for OSA, disconnections, and ethics handling on people who dared to think differently. Personally I am convinced that more harm than good came from my families involvement.
I have been motivated by undoing some of the bad I helped create.
But I can not say that there is not good to be had, I do not trust enough to return to auditing or sec checking, but I respect the rights of others to do such. I will fight for the freedom of my friends to practice their spirituality or philosophy as they will providing they don’t use it to hurt others. I no longer will call myself a Scientologist because I don’t know what it is and it is a general label with no clear meaning. But I can’t say that I don’t use what I learned, or may not want further involvement at some future date.
For me two things change the game; end of disconnection as mentioned in the OP; and complete transparency of the CoS, warts and all, open financial record keeping, stats, mess ups, etc. Threat of disconnection is a major point, the major point preventing complete transparency. Transparency creates accountability.
Should this happen, I would imagine tens of thousands of people might re-evaluate their positions concerning the subject over night.
Karen – your posts, passion and commitment to your mission is greatly appreciated. Thank you for the work you do.
Thank you for all your work both in and out of the SO, Karen. Thank you for shining the light on the evil and whistle blowing on it.
Tony,how right you are yet,let us comfort one another with the following truth…we are each of us the highest good in the universe…we are as individuals the highest good for without us Goodness and all her interpretations has no validity. Without us even the Tech has no purpose.
The tech was designed to REMIND us but never to mold us into a valence. Even the term GOD
Is a tool of reflection for humanity. Even the Indian Bhagavadgita is and was written as a reminder of the purpose and infinite design of you the spiritual being. In summary, Krishna
Is intended to be the embodiment of the individual you. Forgive my digression. The Tech of Scientology was researched and developed and written with an intrinsic modesty for LRH knew that the game of life here had long preceded his arrival on earth. Therefore let us permit LRH. His native humanity and not the source of the whole goddamn universe. However, allow no pariah like miscavage, to weasel his way into a kingdom of wisdom that is so divorced from his reality that it causes him emotional pain.I know that DM made his deal with the IRS devils and
I knew it when it happened. Does he believe that we are all stupid.? Did he announce to the family of good and decent scientologists that the church of spiritual technology currently is composed of ex-IRS people on the board of directors.
My friend Tony the purpose of this diatribe is to remind you and me and us and all my true and beloved friends in and out of Scientology is that we are here to be creators not servants and
These two banners…creator and servant…determine who we are. There is value in both however, Reason alone governs them both. They have no other government. Much affection
Tony…keep yelling! MIKE
Thanks Mike!
Great post and comments!!
Personally, I prefer not to spend my time in critics and natter and bitterness. If I see or know something that could be of any help to stop the dictature of DM or open eyes of still in, then will I act. And I am also very curious to know the evolution of the official church – happy to share stories which could comfort. I discover here great people and I feel part of a sane group.
So thank you so much ScnAfrica for re-asserting your goal. It fits perfectly to my philosophy.
I won’t say “long life to you” because it would mean that the decline of CoS is long and arduous, but I wish you the best (for you personally and for every participant to this “fraternity”).
I send you all a large smile from France.
“The fewer viewpoints which an individual will tolerate, the greater his occlusion and the worse his general state of beingness is.”
The Phoenix Lectures
It appears to me that we mostly see what it real to us and are things which pretty much corresponds with our tone level, and things which are not on our radar tend to pass us by. It seems a person only perceives or duplicates things that is not too far from his current tone level and reality.
Thus when I read KSW (being someone saddened by what happened to my religion, and a fairly laid back character) I mostly take note of things like:
“The common denominator of any group is the reactive bank. Thetans without banks have different responses. They only have their bank in common. They agree only on bank principles. etc…..It is the bank that says the group is all and the individual nothing.” [looking at the harsh, ruthless, out-ARC attitude that seems prevalent at least at Flag and Int, but most likely in lots of other places, and how any individual expression or viewpoint seems to be discouraged and how the IAS or SO or Group is all and ones personal situation irrelevant, it appears bank-think is rampant within the Church]
“When people can’t get results from what they think is standard practice, they can be counted upon to squirrel to some degree. etc.” [Here we both have the factor of Dear Leader who according to some accounts does not want auditing, is not highly trained and only seems to duplicate LRH’s harsh words and entirely misses his message of love and understanding. And then we have all the minions who try to apply the COB altered tech (which they think is standard tech) and I think we can see in stats how well that has worked]
“The ogre which might eat us up is not the government or the High Priests. It is our possible failure to retain and practice our technology.” [the current Church seem to fixate and operate on the thesis that the why for it’s failures are external (SPs like ourselves – out to destroy it) and that all is fine and dandy within the Church]
But if someone who is on staff or in the SO, who have taken on the winning valence of a tone-level around 1.5 – 2.0 (thus striving toward death) and being a “mini-me” of dear leader, reads KSW I guess that person would mostly see and duplicate things like:
“When somebody enrolls, consider he or she joined up for the duration of the universe…..”
“This is a deadly serious activity…”
I once thought that this group will prevail where others have failed in history – since we have all this know how and tech on PTS/SP, Why finding, Evaluation, Conditions, etc. etc. and yet within 50 years of it’s formation, it is being destroyed from within. And what upsets me most is not that it has fallen into the hands of one or more SPs. It is that so many scientologists will not and cannot see what is happening, and listen instead of looking and refuses to confront evil.
Looking at this, one wonders what chance does man on this planet have in the future, if some of the brightest and most enlightened people can’t even spot the evil, betrayal and suppression within their own little group?
Yet I feel hopeful for the future of man. I think it is easier to win with truth and working tech, rather than with lies and deception. Maybe I am just a romantic fool, but I like to think theta will beat entheta in the long run.
So… we are at least two romantic fools…
Make that three romantic fools!
The whole menu of options is in that reference. When the bullies run the joint then they can choose the parts they want to enforce.
This is a great post. My two cents as I have frequented many blogs and message boards as a contributor and a reader. When one leaves the church as a Scientologist you go through a scale of emotions very much mirroring the tone scale. I think where you end up as a chronic “tone” depends on your experience. I have posted very negatively at times and even hatefully. There was a period of wallowing in misery and condemnation about the mis management. I never ever doubted LRH and the tech however as I have always had wins. That might be a defining factor for where I am not which is either #2 and or #3.
There are a hardcore group of people that are doing everything to trash LRH. Ortega is one of them. As much as he provides a good service to keep us up to date on the goings on in courts etc I hate that he bashes the tech. But then he never claimed to be a supporter so at least he’s not covert.
People like Karen and Mike Rinder do a fantastic job at exposing the truths of the abuse which the blind inside cannot see. ( BTW I was good friends with Karens son in the SO at PAC)
I think if Marty had not started his blog a lot of this would never have happened. Where he ended up was the result of the enormous pressure that was put on him from the church. As you stated there are venues for everyone.
I am in the USA but from England by birth so I have a unique viewpoint on the US operations and worked in the SO overseeing all Div Sixes in the US for missions and orbs for two years. When you see this first hand its sickening.
The Back in Comm bloq is a sane place to come. I like that there is no LRH bashing as such and being another country out of the control of Int management I can see you guys going fully independent faster than anywhere else. I feel that by using the South African law you could oust whats left of the SP’s there and take over fast.
For those of you that have not found the Milestone Two blog you should. Its a nice place to get some LRH from people who care.
Good job back in comm.
Firstly I would like to thank you scnafrica for this blog. My husband and I are South Africans and we both agree that we prefer your blog, maybe because we can relate to our fellow South African’s stories but I enjoy reading the comments as well and find they can be very insightful so thanks to the commenters. We are freshley out of the church and know some of the 18 who were recently declared and thanks to them our eyes are finaly open and we are communicating openly and freely.
Wierdly enough we, a family of scientologists all felt there was something sinister even an evil going on in the church but never spoke about it amongst ourselves, just too afraid I suppose. My husband actualy had the cognition that he was PTS to the church but quickly supressed his cog. It was only when we were educated about what was going on in the COS and started to read blogs such as these that we could just talk openly to each other about our feelings (I mean can you believe not even comunicating to your 2d that you have been married to for 14 years and we are actully a tight couple). I believe in the tech, we still and will always use scientology tech in our business and in our day to day lives. I am just greatful that the tech is still there ,my bridge is still there and I will never be black mailed again. I am finally free!!!!!!!!
Fantastic! Thank you so very much for sharing this.
My husband actualy had the cognition that he was PTS to the church but quickly supressed his cog. It was only when we were educated about what was going on in the COS and started to read blogs such as these that we could just talk openly to each other about our feelings (I mean can you believe not even comunicating to your 2d that you have been married to for 14 years and we are actully a tight couple).
My wife and I went through the same gradients of cognition. I was the first one to take the plunge into the pure, unadulterated truth about what’s been going on with the church all these years. It was scary at first, but I held my wife’s hand through the darkness until we saw the light together. In the end, we both were better for it.
I understand being reticent to talk to your 2-D about you discoveries and cognitions. I had the same problem for a couple of days after first opening my eyes. It was horrifying and hardly something that I felt was full of devastating potential, should I communicate what I was finding with my spouse.
Thing is, there wasn’t any way I could keep my new found discoveries to myself. Within a day or two, I realized that I had to open up about it. Thank goodness, she fully grokked it all.
Ronnie I see you enjoyed the classic book “Stranger in a Strange Land” , I grok you!
It was clear to me early on in my search for the truth , thanks to Debbie Cook , that we had to discover together or it would separate us and I was so right . the events that followed and got us declared proved it.
Our marriage is stronger than ever since we both are “Special People”.
Interesting. Another view of this could be in terms of the intent of the comment, rather than the person.
If we look at what the commentators SAY, as a point of categorizing visitors to this site, rather than categorizing “types of people” based upon their various very valid views, is one way of looking at this tricky subject.
There are comments that bash or hate or ridicule LRH, the tech, the wins, the subject of Scientology, and there are comments that do not. These are two basic differentiating factors.
One commentator, being essentially a member of a bright group of people, may think the subject is a con and a scam, but, recognizing the nature of THIS blog makes a comment here that does not forward their fundamental view, but comments, constructively, about a particular article.
For example, an article describes a person’s departure from the church and is a poignant and heartfelt account. A person across at Tony’s or ESMB comments in support of their departure, and is a genuine comment that supports their journey. To me this is great.
Another person who is a never-in but is interested in the evolving debate, a Christian or Buddhist or agnostic or philosopher, may wish to express views that contribute, and that’s excellent. Some may wish to understand our tenacious adherence to a guy who has long departed us. Fine. I love that type of comment.
The differentiator is the hate and bashing.
Cat Daddy, sometimes makes an appearance here and there, and as far as I know, is a “hater” but he or she can characterize him/herself better than I can. Cat Daddy also seems to comment on Mike’s blog but tempers his comment to that site and audience, and attaches all manner of video clips and an occasional comment. When he/she arrives on THIS blog, as someone who is sometimes vitriolic on other sites, and communicates within the reality of this site, I say welcome Cat Daddy. This is not to single out this person particular but to illustrate a point, of course.
This separates the person from the comment, and encourages maximum participation.
A channel of communication has reality as a carrier wave. This is the defining point. The content, to travel that line, needs to fit the channel and the harmonic of the site. This is the absolute right of the creator of the blog. As ESMB and Tony have their realities so does this one.
I applaud your openness in discussing this subject of comment parameters. Openness is the character of it. The comments above are in support of that idea.
I would like to “throw out” some elements of the admin tech in my personal approach to the use of the subject. I would also like to comment about this when the topic is relevant. I would also like to do so without being crucified by those who believe “we should leave everything as it is and not change a thing”, segment of the audience.
This latter “throw some of it out” standpoint presupposes that not all of the writings are relevant to present time and an independent application.
This may be sacrilege to some, and I accept that completely. I would like, nevertheless, to be able to express my views despite their welcomed presence on the blog.
It is like a multi-viewpoint, multi-reality universe of communication outside the LRH, tech, scientology, wins-bashing brigade.
“Throw some of it out” comments would not be bashing but looking at applications as independents outside the cofs organized religion, as we current know it. IMO
I know LRH had flaws. But I know he had little time to do all he wanted to. But I can acknowledge that with we are blogging away!
As Karen said, she has a role, and so has the next person. All of the comments are made from SUCH a variety of standpoints, it’s amazing, but all welcome, other than simply trashing.
My 2 cents.
And a valuable 2c it is St. Thank you.
I am from Europe but I like your blog very much. I started with Marty Rathbun who dared to open the way.
The practice of Scientology should not belong to a monoply like CofS as run by Miscavige.
There are many groups and they are delivering tech. A question arise, what do we still consider standard tech? If it’s not 100% certified LRH, can it be still a valid tech? (from a scientologist stand point. From an “outside” viewpoint it would be a cultish question. Was Jung a psychonanlyste or a “squirrel” from Freud, as a comparison. Non sens question in a non cultish environnement)
But, since Hubbard death, whoever developped anything WAS NOT LRH.
Back to 1978, Ned for OT’s is very much suspected to have been co-authored by LRH and David Mayo. GAT is a developpement based on LRH tech. It’s just too much authoritarian. But some aspect can help. While this in the Church, there was the bridge of Ron’s org, developped by Bill Robertson, based on Not’s and OTIII. Many people find it to be the upper bridge missing at the Church. It’s true that if you know about Excalibur (their OTVIII), you can’t deny that it’s very bright finding and it gives wins (i’m not Ron’s Orger, but I feel to state this from what i have observed).
People are practicing scientology, and they are developping some angle to handle what needs to be. Scientology like any other subject will be developped by people which are not LRH as he is now dead. It will not stay as it is. It is contrary to natural laws.
For me standard tech exist if one follows the auditor’s code and can apply a real good comm cycle. That he can listen and understand what someone is telling. Able to have a winning PC because he feels he can speak to you, be in session. If this is not in, I agree to say it’s not scientology.
So, as long as we will be able to listen, to ack and help to release people from charge which are making their life less than what it should be, we could say we are practicing scientology, wherever we came from.
David Miscavige is simply not a scientologist.
I vote for the aspect of communication and there is a difference between this and ‘attack another’
It is correct to give your opinion, but attacking implies that you think what you do or think is THE THING TO DO and this is judgmental, which is what the Church is doing, judge everything you think or say (if you dare at all).
So, lets be free in communicating your viewpoint, feelings and opinions and another may express something different and, either one of them, or even others, may arrive to a new viewpoint or conclusion of his own, which is what counts.
As far as Scientology delivery you can not control it all, but I believe, for now, is better to let it flow rather than try to stop what has been termed as ‘non-standard’, the time will come when the Church will have lost all his power and things will align according to basic and valid principles and truths of a workable philosophy. But for now let it flow and stop dramatizing the church hallmark of ‘stopping everything”, after all this can become suppressive, This is my view.
Well said Silvia! VVVWD.
Scnafrica,
Actually I’m glad you’re moderating this board.
Having experienced the internet anarchy known as usenet I find it rather refreshing that there is a safe point where Scientologists who love the subject but hate what the Church has become can go.
(Maybe they should call us the Scientology Miltia )
I find it rather refreshing that there is a safe point where Scientologists who love the subject but hate what the Church has become can go.
I second that, RV.
I acknowledge that this is your blog and you may do with it as you wish. I would point out, though, that seeking to control what is said about the subject is that realm of action which has led Scientology to its current state of affairs. There is a plethora of uncomfortable truths about Scientology and L. Ron Hubbard – each and every one backed up by verifiable DOX – which seriously undermine both the tech and the narrative Scientologists – both within and without the cult – seek to impose. Attempting to define people who speak those uncomfortable truths as “bitter, angry haters” is exactly what the cult has been doing since at least 1951 when Dr J. A. Winter left Dianetics and spoke out against L. Ron Hubbard.
Readers of this blog will, eventually, come across those uncomfortable truths and may well reflect on why a blog designed to help has attempted to stifle discussion of them and maligned the messengers. Just sayin’.
Many of us have already come across those uncomfortable truths and decided that the tech of Scn can stand on its own legs without need to reference their founder. Just as one can be a Christian while understanding the New Testament has almost no reference to Jesus Christ.
Yes so true, “Is that clear enough.” I have read all the dox on how “bad” LRH was. But the tech of Scn can stand on its own legs without need to reference the founder. It is possible to separate out the tech from the discoverer/writer of the tech. Van Gough cut off his ear and mailed it to someone, a clearly insane act. Does that make you unable to love his art or appreciate the “Starry Starry Night” painting, for example?
Oh please.
Many “uncomfortable truths” are usually lies repeated by different sources. Many based on forged or altered “documentation”.
Typical psywar by forgery in many cases:
https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/kent-csi/vol5no1/html/v05i1a03p_0001.htm
Even if they were true.
Who cares?
The point should be whether the tech works or not. Not whether the person who developed it was a saint or sinner.
+ 100
Well said, Crepuscule.
Here’s the bottom line… like it or not, Scientology is a new Religion. Whether one embraces it or rejects it, it is an extant philosophy of life and our place in the material (and spiritual) universe. More than that, it is an actual practice, with a precisely described set of exacting procedures, doctrines, and axioms.
Call them rituals, dogma, beliefs, truths, or whatever you will – it’s what these people accept as the fundamental aspects of their RELIGION. Their certainty on the reality of their religious principles is borne out in their collective practice of their religion.
That said, it is their right as human beings to be free to practice their religion in the way they see fit (and which are prescribed by its founder). None of us would deny the same right to any group of people who subscribe to another religious faith.
It then stands to reason that such people have every right to create gathering places where they can freely commune with those of like mind and experience — no different than others who share any common religious faith.
Whatever direction the owners of this blog eventually take, it’s certain that those who’ve found truth in the Scientology religion, will find each other, then coalesce into groups which reject the efforts of others to undo their certainty in their chosen religious philosophy.
If you want to help the planet get better I think it would be productive to have a discussion about what in Scientology is workable, what is genius and what could be left out. I personally think that the ARC triangle is very workable. I think that the auditing comm cycle and listening and letting a person complete their entire communication before interrupting is excellent. I think that the Org board is very useful. I was a fully hatted Ethics Officer and had very good wins using the conditions myself and on others. I know a lot of people don’t like them, but that wasn’t my experience.
I personally think that getting auditing going in volume is the key to making a lot of auditors. I used to have a burning desire to be an auditor, In fact, I did all the academy levels and was auditing on my internship. I was auditing a staff member on some lists that used the data series and it was going great. At one point it came up in his auditing that the reason he wasn’t doing well on post was because of no auditing . He was VGI’s on it and so was I. Later the ED of the Org said that “no auditing couldn’t be the why” and essentially it was wrong that I let the pc have that as an indication. To me , it was bullshit. The auditing was for the pc not the friggin ED. Then the pro metering came out. I was on that stupid course for over two years and never finished it. At the same time I was auditing on Solo Nots. Apparently I was good enough to audit one of the highest levels in Scientology but not run a grades session??? Huh??!! The point is that the run way to become an auditor can be so long that it is just a big STOP and a way to discourage auditing from even happening. I think that dm is purposely sabotaging the auditing line.
Corporate Scientology likes to give you overts by scaring you into believing that if you goof on someone in auditing that you can ruin their eternity or bar them from “making it”. The truth is , it is better to try to help someone rather than being too afraid to help them. LRH always said you don’t need a license to survive yet in Scientology you DO need a license to survive in that small little universe. For God’s sake….build a better Bridge. The best Bridge would consist of the most useful tech. Talking about that is not being critical of LRH, it is being sane. Sanity is differentiation. A=A=A is identification. LRH=good=no faults=can’t talk about Scientology= an apple= bites of apples.
Well said, Tony. Personally I don’t feel I know enough to make a decision with certainty, but how will I ever know enough without looking at all the angles? For now I stick with what works for me, but my faith has been shaken and I don’t want to make the same mistake twice i.e. I want to hear it all and see it all so I can make an educated decision, NOT swallow whole the “party line”. Do I think LRH was great? Not sure. Did he create the Tech or “borrow” it from somewhere else? Again, not sure. Was he determined to help, or was he looking for a pedestal to be placed on? Still not sure. But the one thing I am sure of – I’d rather know the truth and take it from there, than base my choices on lies. Nothing can take my wins from me. Did I achieve them because of Scientology, or despite it? Who knows, and who really cares? The only thing that truly matters is will I continue to be a better me, and can someone help me do so? If so, then I can pass it forward, and that is my understanding of community.
The dwarf IS stopping auditing and has been doing so for a decade or two now. The evidence is all around us. You can’t go Clear in South Africa! You can’t get a simple session in South Africa. There are few Clear auditors in South Africa. If I told you anymore, I’d give myself away and I’m not ready to do that yet.
Personally I don’t see that I fit any of the 8 types of people encountered out there when it comes to Scientology. To make my point I need to refer to a statement made by you toward the end of your latest post:
“There will come a time when the church’s influence on those outside will abate, when it will have no affect. There will be a time when talking, questioning and criticizing is the norm. When that time comes, this blog will be irrelevant, it will have served it’s function and can be quietly retired”.
My point is this; nothing stays the same in an ever changing world – nothing – not even the “truths” of Scientology. Invariably “reality” changes. Each step in the work of LRH reaches a point when it has served its purpose – when the individual should move on to the next step and beyond. This is a personal issue. That there is always a beyond should be obvious, unless we forget or choose to ignore a most fundamental quality of Theta – creation – the ability to create different realities – different truths. And LRH was very aware of this.
Simply look at his work. Compare the causes of aberration outlined in D M S M H of 1950 with that of the OT 3 materials in later years. He never stopped changing the bridge. Students on the SHSBC when LRH was present during the 1960’s will tell you course check sheets changed constantly. Is there any doubt that had LRH continued his work for another 10 years after 1986 that the bridge would not have changed? Of course it would have, and probably drastically so.
As I have inferred on several occasions, the idea of standard tech was never meant to be the final word on the application of Scientology. It was LRH calling time-out for consolidation. I have mentioned before my conversation with LRH in which he emphasized the importance of a pioneering stage (a developmental period) in “thinking” followed by a period of consolidation.
It should be obvious that he would want to consolidate as much as possible in terms of tech and admin as he began to withdraw from running Scientology. But that was not a reflection of his true nature. He was in essence a pioneer, mostly in creation mode. The times he went into consolidation mode was an act of taking responsibility for what was created and not, as it may seem to some, an attempt to assert Scientology as the ultimate and final truth.
Now I know it can be upsetting for someone to be told that their stable data – the truths they depend on for orientation are not absolute. Fortunately the criterion for making right choices and decisions isn’t the “absolute or ultimate truth” but a truth which puts or keeps us in touch with ever changing circumstances. This is a functional truth due to a functional mindset. And here is the thing; a fixed truth (fixed idea) unable to change, sooner or later becomes a dysfunctional truth which puts us out of touch.
As I said, I don’t see that I fit any of the 8 types of people encountered out there when it comes to Scientology. I am grateful for my encounter with LRH and Scientology. Yet I am one, amongst a growing number, who can’t ignore the new horizons which have now come into view. Nonetheless, I do believe that certain “basic truths” in Scientology will serve as functional truths for some time and keep many in touch within the context of the life they are living.
“Progress is impossible without change. And those who can not change their minds can’t change anything” (Ralph Waldo Emerson)
Joe van Staden.
Very right what you say, Joe.
Possibly Scn Africa , this is a gentle nuge , like the leopard mother she will care and fight to death for her young, but at around two years the young get a heavy slap and sent on there way,
not sure that I feel like a leopard , but I do sense a possible nuge that maybe scn Africa is getting slowly gaat full, means had enuff.
A world of living is waiting to be had! Scn Africa I get u if no one else does,
Not sure we follow. What are you nudging?
Em ah what is what! No infact I came to the above relisation as u said at the top the blog would simply fad or disapear ,
So I figured at times u may want to go buy shoes, or. Chill at the beach , or talk to the Hefalump, but got blogs to read and moderate and new posts to create, it takes time from your living ,
What’s the old saying no rest for the wicked , I’m busy so I must be wicked , thanks for your time and interest seriously cheers
We’re all good 🙂
So good to see some new subscribers to the blog.
And you are all welcome.
Promote the blog to someone you care about.
Great topic for discussion and I love getting
all the different viewpoints to view. xx
When I was doing Solo Nots and was at Flag about 4-5 years ago I met a real pretty young lady from South Africa. As I recall she had a wealthy father who was supporting her to become (I think) the tech c/s or an auditor. As I recall she was an important person from one of the Org’s in South Africa. Does anyone know who she might be? (name) I think she was probably getting some OT levels too.
I posted a video clip on this thread and it hasn’t passed moderation. Is there something about it that you feel violates the rules?
Haven’t seen anything Tony. Karen also reported having a problem posting video. Please try again.
I am glad to read there are those who post here who are truth seekers. There has never, ever been a better times to find truth. The internet allows us to examine things like court transcripts, military records, even many FBI files that are no longer “Confidential”. Many documents and books are now available online for free.
It is very difficult for any altered documentation to be presented to the public nowadays. The politicians and others have found this out the hard way. Even Mr. Miscavige. He becomes an object of ridicule when he states things like 10,000 were in attendance at the opening of the Super Power building in Clearwater, Florida when aerial photographs show nowhere near that amount in attendance. Only by forbidding his parishioners from viewing the internet can he keep truth from them.
I know that many of you are likely putting much effort into adjusting to a vast change in your life. This has to perhaps be more difficult for those who are older (like I am).
As a never-in (from the U.S.) I am one who is motivated by contributing to stopping injustices and abuses. That’s just a part of me. It is good to read about those of you who are now out of a very bad situation. I wish you all well in your journey.
I want to thank the moderator for putting this blog here. It is a great blog that I come to almost every day for my dose of theta and sanity and healing from the church. You South Africans are a mighty and proud bunch that I’m honored to call my friends.