Pretoria – straight up and vertically in debt

A Pretoria “under the radar” forwarded this document to us which is quite frankly, shocking.

This is further evidence of our claims in our previous extensive article on Pretoria that the org was already bankrupt before it opened its doors.

The first document (pictured below) is a covering note confirming that the Pretoria org owns the City of Tshwane (Pretoria Municipality) an amount of R1,159,918.36 (yes, that’s One Million, One Hundred and Fifty Nine Thousand Rands –  plus some change).

Further, the document threatens disconnection of services and.or further steps to be taken.

Tshwane Letter
The entire account is 7 pages long, detailing the charges of Water & Lights use, Rates & Taxes and sanitation charges. We have only published the first page showing a summary of the total charges:

IMG

 

Some points to note:

  1. BUNKER HILLS INVESTMENTS 499 (PTY) Ltd is a company through which the church owns several of its properties.
  2. The listed physical address of Bunker Hill Investments – 5 Cynthia Street Kensington – the same address as CLO Africa.
  3. The address for which the account is valid is 708 CNR CHURCH & BLACKWOOD STREETS (This was before Church Street was renamed to Stanza Bopape Street). The stand number confirms that this is indeed, the location of the Pretoria Org..
  4. A deposit of R34,950.00 was made to the council on the 4th May 2009, which would have been mandated as necessary in order for transfer of the property to Bunker Hill.
  5. According to the account, it is overdue by 607 days, and some of the meter readings go back to 2012 – indicating that the Church has not made ONE payment on this account since their Grand Opening in February 2013.
  6. From the time that the Project Developers took over the site, a meter reading is taken, and once they have finished on site and handed it over to the “owner”, another meter reading is taken and that portion of the account is paid by the Contractors. According to the account, Tri-Star paid an amount of R31,450.86 to the Council for their part of the bill.
  7. Theoretically, Bunker Hill Investments is the “Landlord” (owner) of the property and therefore obliged to pay the sanitation and rates & taxes on the property – “the tenant” (i.e. “The Church” is responsible for the Water & Lights and sewage services). All of this becomes muddy of course, because Bunker Hill is posing as both the occupant and owner of the property. 

While the Church is busying itself with declaring masses of its parishioners for alleged “crimes” according to their own doctrines (which would be laughed out of court), they are brazenly behaving as if their own house is in order and expanding while being in breach of municipal and council by-laws.

We wonder what the good, decent citizens of Tshwane would feel if this story was uncovered? It’s certainly newsworthy.

It is understood that Joburg Org (also owned by Bunker Hills) is in a very similar position of unpaid rates, lights and water.

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57 thoughts on “Pretoria – straight up and vertically in debt

  1. Well now, they are not bankrupt as we have no access to their income statements to see what is their income.It would appear that they are unable to pay short term suppliers which is indicative of problems relating to cashflow. Again, this is in no small part due to a flawed program of expansion through the occupying of un-suitable premises.
    Bunkers Hill Investments has a long over due creditor ( City of Tshwane ).Apart from rates and taxes(which can be paid yearly), all other services rendered by the city should be paid monthly.

    In South Africa, the payment of services like water supply, electricity, waste removal etc is the responsibility of the tenant. In this case Pretoria Ideal Org. When tenants are unable/unwilling to pay for these services,the landlord/owner becomes responsible. It is his property after all. So in this case, the “church” is ultimately responsible as their are both tenant and landlord.The landlord would be responsible for rates and taxes on the property, not the tenant.

    There may very well be a good reason for the non-payment of these services. Perhaps there is a dispute over billing.

    The “church” would be very aware of the conditions of exchange and that it is in violation of fair exchange. The “church’ is now applying criminal exchange. Accepting a service and not paying for said service.
    The most ethical organisation on the planet?

    • Sorry, Old Timer, your comment about tenant responsibility of payment is incorrect. My Real Estate licence number is 2014310572. You’ll also note that the council account is in the name of the owner, not the tenant. The council has no gripe with tenants – only owners.

      Bunker Hill Investments 456 (Pty) Ltd was registered in 2000 and holds JHB Org’s premise as well. And the directors are . . .
      naah . . .you’ll have to wait for that in my next installment.

      And there’s a very interesting piece of data on the title deed of the JHB Org’s erf: a piece of land, measuring about 7m wide, and extending 47m from the road, lying just in front of the northern part of the carpark and parallel to it (just before the Purif), is PUBLIC land and not part of the property as owned by the Church/Bunker Hill! So, some five meters to the left of the current entry gate, this strip of land starts, and runs almost down to where the famous wall of donors is. PUBLIC land . . . . you could and squat on it, or whatever . . . .

  2. Pingback: Pretoria idle org in debt | Scientology Inc "Ideal" (Idle) Orgs

  3. Nobody with a little bit of business sense will be surprised at this. If you can not create income from sales of products or services inside your company and must resort to begging it stands to reason that such a business will also not be able to pay utilities nor maintenance of assets out of their sales.

    A truly expending business will buy assets from profit left over from sales. That way, once buildings and so forth is paid for some of the same profits left over can be used for utilities, maintenance, extra staff salaries and so forth. This really is business 101.

  4. This is simply horrifying management. Scientology has a lot to offer. Despite what others say I sure benefitted from it. To those of you still inside you need to wake up. Many in the Sea Org and some parishioners think Miscavage has their interests at heart. Wake up and take a hard look.. Don’t let him by his deliberate mismanagement of the church bring Scientology into such disrepute that it as a subject will be destroyed. Say it is not ok and say it loud. David Jelley

    • Scientology is a talking therapy. There are many other talking therapies which are not designed to exploit people by making them dependent on the source of the therapy, and you could have received at least as much gain from one of those, without the drawbacks.

  5. Please remember, give some slack – these people operating like this are not just mere wogs.

    I knew about the Jo-burg Org similar situation, but NOT at all surprised – that this is happening in Pretoria as well. For the sake of one’s own sanity, one should get to grips with the knowledge that $cientology has gone criminal. This might be a hard thing to do for those leaving the confines of $cientology, which in itself is not just a single finite act – but a process….

    The NON-CONFRONT on paying one’s own way in the world, is the kind of thing is the hard-wired ‘standard operating procedures’ of a full blown sociopath – who only knows how to take from civil society, friends, family, people in high places, authorities, and celebrities etc. and knows exactly – how to use those for self-advantage – no matter how insane the eventual consequences.

    This Organisation’s NON-CONFRONT on paying their own way in the world – is part and parcel of its blue print in formulas etc. for ‘putting ethics in on the planet’. $cientology’s unique ethics and methods of utter control by its Justice and ethics systems – constantly without fail – reinforces and creates a hard-wired third-dynamic sociopathic-group – without exception. They know ONLY how to TAKE the utmost advantage of civil society; how to TAKE the utmost from its members – (IN ADVANCE nogal !) – but on the other hand – hard-wired NEVER to give back, despite its 4 definitions of ‘exchange’ (if I remember correctly) – the lowest form being ‘criminal exchange.’

    This exposure of their slap-gat-and-don’t-care-a-damn way of dealing with civil society and financial obligations – to actually NOT pay for services delivered to them, and to actually NOT fulfil legal duties and obligations to pay their rates and taxes as real estate owners – is collectively – simply their way of putting $cientology’s unique system of ‘ethics in on the planet.’

    Please remember, give some slack – they are not just mere wogs. Oh no! We are talking here of a new breed of human being, the ‘new civilisation’ makers – the new breed of humanity, the so called Homo-Novis – the most ethical people on the planet, who operate FAR above mere wog norms, rules, sense of civil society, and legal obligations. Before they pay – they will FIRST scheme and wrangle ways and means of – ‘how to make those steep up and vertical bills VANISH’. And – don’t forget THE ETHICS CONDITIONS – they are waiting to get into a power-condition before they ‘pay every dime’ on the spot…..

    In the meantime, hell will freeze over.

    • Beautifully written, Jane.

      You have an uncanny grasp on how the church, the ‘most ethical people on the planet’ operate. I’d love to send you comment to the CO CLO, CO OSA and Albert de Beer. They could not retort. Everything you’ve said here in one hundred percent true!

      • Goodchoices – thank you for validating my grasp on the blue print – after all – I do have a magnificent, rather large gilt-lettered certificate – proclaiming that I had completed OT IV. 🙂

    • So well said, my dear friend Jane. Beautifully blasted from your heart and soul at the ugly under belly of this criminal beast masquerading as a religion.

  6. This is also the way many individuals still on lines operate and clearly regard as being in ethics. Take CRB as an example. It is absolutely nothing but a ser fac.

    • Sean – please read my comment above. Those on lines who operate like this – certainly believe they are upholding $cientology ethics – it is hard-wired into the ethics conditions – part and parcel of the blue print of $cientology – they know not what they are doing ‘wrong’ – give them some slack. 😉

      • Jane,

        Could you be more precise.

        What so ethics conditions are “hard wired” to be out exchange?

        Also I don’t cut anyone who perpetrates a crime any slack whether they be a Scientologist or soi dissant Scientologist or “wog”.

      • Remoteviewed – certainly as requested, I will be more precise.

        Your question: ‘What so ethics conditions are “hard wired” to be out exchange?’

        Ethics ‘hard-wire’ conditions – LOOK – below the condition of affluence – there is no instruction or advice or talk of to – ‘pay your bills’ – it is ONLY when one finds the Org (or an individual) in the condition of Affluence – that it instructs quite categorically to ‘pay every bill’ and to liquidate all debts what-so-ever.

        Your statement: ‘’ Also I don’t cut anyone who perpetrates a crime any slack whether they be a Scientologist or soi dissant Scientologist or “wog”.

        I am sorry that you did not pick up on the satire meant by my comment. Okay – my ‘cut them some slack’ comment – was entirely meant as irony. You missed my sleight of hand comment to ‘cut them some slack’….

        I will explain. When the condemned is lead to the gallows to be hung – it is not effective nor polite to provide only a short rope. The most effective, and deadly manner to dispatch the criminal – is to provide an extensive slack in the length of rope – so that when the trap door is sprung beneath his feet – he has an extensive drop, and enough slack in the rope – to kill the criminal instantly.

        Hence the saying ‘give someone enough slack, to hang himself’.

        I am sorry I had to go into this much detail to explain what will happen to an organisation that has gone criminal.

      • Gee thanx,

        You response was not in any way patronizing Jane.

        However your example still doesn’t show how Scientology is “hard wired” to be out exchange as you say.

        So Ron doesn’t implicitly say pay your bills in the Conditions below Affluence but he doesn’t say that you shouldn’t pay them either.

        So how does this “prove” your point?

        That is unless one was totally being literal and robotic like the Org for example.

      • Remote viewed: CoS has operated as a criminal enterprise for decades, before CoS LRH ran his “Dianetics Foundation” as shady enterprise leaving creditors across the US in his wake. There are many eye witnesses (Like author AE Van Vogt who was head of the LA foundation for awhile) to LRH putting his hand in the till and embezzling thousands of dollars, while debts were totally ignored.. In fact, his shady dealings caused him to lose the rights to his original Dianetics Foundation (and a few other shell corps he created) with his Elizabeth NJ Fndt being in serious debt and the LA foundation being $200,000 in debt – big big money in 1950.

        Only a sugar daddy, Don Purcell, bailed Hubbard out but again LRH past caught up with him when a court ruled the new Dianetics Foundation was liable for the mountain of unpaid debts left by its previous incarnations. To escape those debts LRH created a new entity – The Hubbard College which mounted a bunch of debts quickly and closed after six weeks when LRH ran off and married 18 year old staff member, Mary Sue. He the started his first incarnation of Scientology, taking the lessons he learned from getting caught and bankrupted at previous creation he now knew how to be a better grifter but still his shady dealings never ceased and its why LRH fled the US, then the UK, then had only open waters to turn to to prevent his criminal behavior and debts and lawsuits from catching up with him.

        All this definitely taught LRH the shell corporation game which the cult has been playing since the 1960s, creating a complex maze of corporations, organizations and front groups so that they can be scofflaws.

        There is nothing new here at the Pertoria Org, Jane is right, this behavior is hard wired into Scientology. It’s why some invented agency called Bunker Hill is liable for the properties not CoS. if they SA Orgs go down, Bunkerhill is liable and will go bankrupt while CoS won’t pay a thin dime. CoS needs to spend their billions on fair gaming ex-members and critics – just like LRH instructed them. The “exchange” stuff preached in CoS books is just pandering to the sheep – the church or LRH never practiced it. They only used it as a preface for wrenching more money out of the sheep when convenient.

  7. Johannesburg Ideal Org must have been in a very similar state long before Pta even finished their fund raising. And yet, there were Albert and Bob pushing for donations to Pta org and Jhb North. They KNEW what was going to happen. Karma is a bitch, boys – and she will catch up to you. You have knowingly got people into serious personal debt to fund these monstrosities – KNOWING that they do not work. That is evil.

  8. SOP – take the money into Scientology and never pay it out. Someone can send them the tax returns downloaded on Tony Ortega’s Blog last week showing the Co$ has billions of dollars they are sitting on.

    I noticed there was “no electricity” used. Are they shut down completely and the building is simply more “smoke and mirrors” propaganda?

  9. Surely none of this is any big surprise. This is exactly how RCS is operating these days under the direction of David Miscavige. I made a video about how this actually started based on my personal experiences with the Ideal Org strategy and opening Ideal Orgs here in West US. I think might be of some interest to you guys in South Africa.

      • It’s on my youtube channel so you can link to it there. Otherwise if you want a copy of the video itself on your computer, you’d have to use a youtube downloading program. If you want to show it to other people or refer to it, it’s easier to just use the link to my channel.

      • happychappie – using Firefox, get the extension “downloadhelper”. Then go to youtube and start playing. This extension will allow you to download it as a .flv or an .mp4 file. For your info – nothing he said in this video about “snow-white” was incorrect. And, yes, donations for funds to cover LRH in lawsuits was also done. Remoteviewed was not there – many of us were.

      • Oh please OLB,

        I was there too and prior to SEF there was never any regging of straight donations for anything.

        Also if you’d bother to read my rebuttal there were inaccuracies such as the defendants pleading guilty when in fact according to court record they plead nolo contendere based on actual court documents.

        That they charged them with conspiracy based on actions relating to GO 1361 *not* Snow White.

        (The overall *program* was called Snow White which as I wrote earlier specifically said to obtain the information by “*legal*(emphasis mine) means” and 1361 was a order based upon Snow White.)

        Again this is mentioned in the court records.

        If you’d bother to read them.

        So what you’ve written here is just revisionist “history”.

      • remoteviewed – There is no revisionist history. GO 732 WW is the original Snow White Eval and it required additional Snow White Programs be written for every target. The original Ideal Scene of GO 732 WW Snow White Program, 20 April 1973, as written by LRH was and still is in the documents at the court to “All false and secret files of the nations of areas brought to view and legally expunged…” It did not require to be legally brought to view but to be legally expunged. Yes GO 1361 really took it out there, but it was not stopped or hindered, even when known by CS-G and LRH to be an operational target worked on. I worked on that case as GO staff and you didn’t. Your summation may have great data but that does not make my specific comments revisionist. As I said, many of us were there. I was commenting as Chris’s video did not say any Snow White data that was not within the documentation on the Snow White whole overall program. My comment about dono’s covering LRH in suits did not even mention SEF. I merely commented that dono’s did cover suits with LRH in them. I am not interested in covering this area of data any further

      • OTB,

        I understand what you’re saying and my intention was not to invalidate you ( in fact I admire your recollection of the facts) but I too have some personal knowledge of the scene as well since I audited GO Staff and those in GAS as well.

        Also my view of Snow White is distinctly different than the current management and the critics as you can see.

        We won’t go any further on that.

        Now about regging donos for Ron’s personal lawsuits. I don’t remember any of this and you could say I was pretty much in with the in crowd somewhat even after the Regime change.

        I did know that some lil’ twerp by the name of Miscavige was running an off line op from ASI known as the “Special Project” AKA MAC for “Mission All Clear” and that he was selling “LRH signed” (more likely forged) properties the proceeds (that didn’t go in the lil’ cretins pocket) of which could have been used for various lawsuits .

        Is this what you mean?

        You see the only direct donation regging I remember was SEF and later IAS.

    • Chris,

      I watched your video and have a few criticisms to make.

      First policies dealing specifically with money are only a fraction of what other administrative subjects covered in the OEC and Management Vols.

      You also cite the Money Tapes which is an anthology of various lectures some of them not even dealing specifically with money in particular.

      Then of course there is the *fact* that you don’t have to spend a damn cent to get trained as a book auditor and audit or coaudit. All you need is a library card.

      Not to mention the “Free Scientology Centers” which at one time existed.

      Then you give the in my *opinion* what was the typical Sea Org viewpoint regarding the Snow White program and used to justify the junta that followed.

      The program specifically says to acquire any information from government sources by “any legal means” which included adding teeth to the pretty much toothless FOIA that existed prior to the early ’70’s.

      Sites like cryptome, wikileaks and various other websites plus journalists like Marks, Prado, Bamford and others can thank the GO who along with others lobbied to expand the Freedom of Information Act.

      Ironically this expansion of FOIA did little good in the case of the Church of Scientology since their lawsuit against various agencies of the USG who were indeed involved in a conspiracy according to the Church Committee Report:

      http://archive.org/stream/finalreportofsel01unit/finalreportofsel01unit_djvu.txt

      against various organizations including the Church of Scientology which blows the allusion that the GO was merely being paranoid.

      This so called “paranoia” is covered in detail as well in the following well *documented* books by Omar Garrison both which can be read on line here:

      http://www.freezone.de/english/timetrack/data/Hidden_Story/index.htm

      http://www.freezone.de/english/timetrack/data/Playing_Dirty/

      (The question is is someone being paranoid when they are really out to get you?)

      but I digress.

      The fact is that the Church of Scientology sought by a *legal* lawsuit against various agencies of the US Government to get them to reveal what covert actions they were taking against the Church of Scientology specifically and were told the Government couldn’t release these files for reasons of “National Security”.

      Thus all the GO’s hard work on strengthening the FOIA was wasted by a Judge who chose to uphold “National Security” over Civil Liberties.

      Take a guess on which side of the debate I am on.

      Anyway.

      True the Church of Scientology specifically the GO resorted to illegally obtain this information by using the age old strategy of espionage per GO 1361 which was in violation of Snow White but they may have been placed in that position by an agent provocateur or the ends justify the means mentality that was infecting the Information Branch at the time or a combination of the two.

      But by what ever way this came about the fact is the GO did commit the illegal actions that are constantly employed by CIA and other intelligence agencies on a daily basis.

      Why are these acts when ostensibly committed under the shibboleth of “National Security” in many cases illegally as in the case of CIA in violation of own charter of carrying out a program of domestic intelligence such as MH/CHAOS:

      http://www.serendipity.li/cia/lyon.html

      and so *illegal* when non state actors commit them for what they believe is their individual or organizational security?

      Seems like a double standard to me.

      I mean if it wasn’t for a few brave souls who decided to apply Thoreau’s Civil Disobedience:

      http://xroads.virginia.edu/~hyper/WALDEN/Essays/civil.html

      such as the Abolitionists would we still have slavery?

      Or in the following example of people who acted much like the GO:

      http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/07/us/burglars-who-took-on-fbi-abandon-shadows.html

      would we have known what dirty deeds the FBI was committing under COINTELPRO?

      I doubt it.

      With a world full of good Germans or Communists or “law abiding citizens” told to report slaves or jews or dissidents we probably would have long since crossed that line to an Orwellian Totalitarian State long ago in my opinion.

      Does it justify what the GO did?

      In my opinion it does.

      But that is just my opinion.

      The hard facts are as can be seen by anyone who has since left the Church is that the regime who ousted them the Sea Org’s CMOI is in many ways worse than the old GO and the Controller’s Office.

      At least under them the Church was involved in its primary mission of delivering auditing and training not exclusively seeking donations per 501Ciii from a bunch of fat cats and whales seeking indulgence from some uber dictator.

      Moving on.

      Another point in the presentation which I feel needs correction is that the Scientology eleven pled nolo contendere:

      http://www.nolocontendere.org/differencebetweenguiltyandnocontest.html

      to a contrived stipulation of “evidence”:

      http://home.earthlink.net/~snefru/GO/GOSTIP/toc.html

      Dissected by the following post by what was known as the ARS Librarian:

      http://english.freiescientologen.de/archiv/arscc/000410part1.html

      which are archived here:

      http://english.freiescientologen.de/archiv/arscc/index.html

      Finally yes it is true that the GO had established the “Safe Environment Fund” the blue print to the IAS in my opinion but when Ron found out about it he shut it down since the money for defense was already provided for in what was known then as the Building Fund.

      Unfortunately when Sea Org took over more accurately seized the Organization and by then had full control they resurrected its stinking hoary corpse of SEF and renamed this abomination the International Association of Scientologists.

      You will note that Hubbard’s name is not connected to it.

      The following is my view on the matter:

      http://rundbrief.org/kd0044/archiv/sc-i-r-s-ology/veritas/mailings/sw-1-3.htm

      • I kind of get from what you are saying that GO’s/OSA’s illegal acts are mitigated by Govt. intelligence Agencies also committing illegal acts. I don’t think I buy that argument of yours.   Vinay 

        ________________________________

      • RV your the man!!! I love reading your comments and admire your knowledge backed up by references of this part of Scientologys history!

    • Yeah that is why the book has questionable credible value as far as I’m concerned.

      Like Bare Faced Messiah.

      If anyone listed actual lawsuits that were anything but frivolous. You’ll find the ones directed against the Church to far exceed those against Ron personally.

      In fact the only one I’m aware of that was launched by multiple plaintiffs by Flynn and Associates.

      Do you know of any others?

  10. And the directors of Bunker Hills Investments 469 (Pty) Ltd are: (drum roll . . . . . )

    1. ELMIEN REBORG-SONDERGAARD, ID xxxxxxxxxxx, and
    2. RYAN RICHARD HOGARTH, ID xxxxxxxxxxx.

    A couple of things come to mind given the background of a company that has no liquidity, but huge debts in both Pretoria and Johannesburg (and I confirm the company owns the CT, PE and Durbs premises):

    1. Directors are held personally liable, via the Companies Act, for the indebtedness of the company. Charges of reckless directing comes to mind here. And there’s enough recent court cases to substantiate the courts’ views on this sort of thing.
    2. You need one creditor to start the liquidation proceedings of Bunker Hills . . . .and there’s some options here to actually acquire these two premises . . . . and the others . . . heh, heh.
    3. Ryan Hogarth is hugely exposed here. No resignation lodged with CIPC. And given that the debts arose over a long time history . . .ugh.

    This company’s affairs is so well run, it was nearly de-registered last year for non-compliance with statutory returns.

    My search doesn’t tell me who the shareholder(s) are. Yet. But regardless – these shareholders can then also be sued and liquidated if they don’t cough up. And we do know who the shareholder is, right? THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY IN SOUTH AFRICA, registration No 1968/014313/08.
    And this entity is the only one still ‘alive’ at the CIPC. WISE SA has closed down, and so has the Chartwell and Norwood missions’s company structures (deregistered).

    And here endeth the lesson.

    [moderator note: ID numbers edited out]

    • Thanks for your hardwork and ingenuity, Frik, in getting this information and reporting it to us. Much obliged.

      This is dangerous news to be known by any general public especially a public alienated, angry and feeling robbed and duped. Eish!

      OSA has not done its job! Too busy running around witchhunting?

      • An OSA in Treason on its hat? An OSA untrained in the legalities of the country and company law? Or just too sloppy – out-admin, out-ethics. Wow! I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised. The church is in an even much, much worse position than we thought! Much, much worse. Miscavige should be worrying about this, not lying about expansion and academy non-existent wins and other nonsense. He risks losing his valuable, South African real estate and risks the ire of duped fundraisers who’ve spent their millions only to lose the lot and their ‘church’. Who knows, their ire and indignation might be such that they ask for refunds.

        Even Norwood Mission’s legal ruds are out? And Wise Africa! How could anyone with any sort of savvy allow this all to happen. This is astounding. It’s mind boggling.

        Important information who’ve unearthed here, Frik.

  11. Nicely said Jane. Considering that $cientology is LRH’s alter ego it is not surprising that Co$ has no compunction about paying its bills. LRH left a string of bad debt behind him, all nicely documented in Bare Faced Messiah. When the S.Africa model really starts snowballing and ALL the orgs are called out for being deadbeats and dragged into court that may be the tipping point for an end game. What really needs to happen then is for a big shot with deep pockets who is no fan of $cientology (Rupert Murdoch?) to swoop in and buy all the copyrights in bankruptcy court, ala Co$’s takeover of CAN. Chop off the head and stake to the heart, just like Dracula, to ensure it never rises again.

    • Unless I misunderstand, I find comments like flyonthewall’s quite disturbing. I assume people posting here are Scientologists as I can’t understand why anyone else would, and to see commenters revelling in the misfortunes of our belief system is not pleasant to my ears (or eyes). In fact the above is not so bad, but I just read a more disturbing one on another local blog literally rejoicing at the death of Terrence Shank because he some years ago resigned from CoS. Why should one get pleasure from the death of an OT8 no matter the circumstances, any more than one should rejoice at the thought of the Scientology copyright being bought out by Murdoch?
      Using people’s deaths to further your own agenda is gross – the obituary on Werner Lossau came close to it but was at least a bit more tasteful and at least not an attack on Scn but simply reflecting his views.
      I think we’ve really lost the plot if this is what the conversation is degenerating to.

      • And I find that blind faith and koolaider thought disconcerting, Sean.

        Scientology, not only the church, has hurt people. LRH has hurt people, many. Why should displeasure and/or anger and/or rejoicing over something that may seem to someone else worth being displeased, angry about or being rejoiced over and not be expressed on this blog?

        I’d rather not be theetie-wheetie, myself.

        The blog is one for getting back in comm. For decades, we’ve not been able to criticise, vent and have been prevented from expressing our sometimes deep demotions or disapproval or disenchantment. It’s been verboten. There pent up feelings that go back decades in some cases! Perhaps with most of us. All of a sudden we have a vehicle to express our pent up opinions, etc. If people want to vent, so be it. We don’t have to agree with everything that everyone says and people who feel like deriding the church, Scn or the man himself from their viewpoint, have a right to do so – in my opinion.

        I’ve been learning more of late about LRH and his life, about which he lied to us; and am shocked, annoyed, etc. I even feel that everyone else should know the truth, if they’ve the confront for it. However, there are those with fixed ideas who do not what their illusions toppled. Well, so be it.

        LRH lied to us. When, then, did he tell us the truth? Hey? He did leave a string of unpaid bills, and he was on the run from the law for three to four decades. Not nice, but true.

        Let there be true freedom of speech.

  12. Now, my flock:
    Add to this that the monies taken from parishioners for services not delivered adds to more than R4 million at the last count for the whole of SA, and we have another ingredient with which to conclude our war here in SA.
    Must I paint the whole picture for you?

  13. Pingback: The Street Will Be Completely Closed - Mike Rinder's Blog

  14. Pingback: Pretoria Org – Still in trouble | Scientologists back in comm

  15. Pingback: Pretoria Org is in trouble – again. | Scientologists back in comm

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