Enemy Purposes

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By The Oracle   

This is a list:
These are purposes:
This is step 3 of a doubt formula:
Decide on the basis of “the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics” whether or not it should be attacked, harmed or suppressed or helped.
You are given a list. Are the items on this list your items? One of them was an item for me, “help”. The other items on this list are not my items. But when you are asked to do this condition, you are given this to choose from and you must choose one. Because this is considered “standard tech”.
What if you don’t have purposes to harm attack and suppress? Then you are expected to mock them up. And you are supposed to do this for the sake of “ethics”. So, people can just get restimulated into this or mock up these purposes and over time you get a group of pretty mean people. And a lot of harming attacking and suppressing going on.
Then you can buy more auditing to handle these “purposes” you mocked up that are harmful purposes!
What I did was, I extended this list so my items were on the list. I have other items that work for me in dealing with people that do not involve harming attacking or suppressing them. If you have your own methods, you can extend the list too and put items that are yours on the list.
If you look at a grade chart the awareness characteristics that aligns with clear is CONDITIONS. That is where a person should hopefully become aware of conditions. It worked for me. But I see no reason to put the ethics book on someone who not a clear because then you are going to tell them things and you are going to give them lists and if that person is not up to speed as a P.C. and listing, and knowing about items or wrong items, you are going to have someone doing things and saying things because you told them to or enforced it on them. You can also summon up purposes that can get in their way between them and their fellow man.
I hope this is helpful to someone else.



178 thoughts on “Enemy Purposes

  1. Interesting, I always went with “Decide on the basis of “the greatest good for the greatest number of (applicable) dynamics” whether or not it should be attacked, harmed or suppressed or helped” or whatever, and act accordingly.

  2. This is a very good point, Oracle.

    According to the Vedas, “The world is a family.” If there is an enemy and he is obviously intent on harming you, he is still a part of the family. He should be helped to overcome his intent to harm.

    It is okay to use just enough force to stop your enemy from harming you. That does not mean that you go beyond that point to attack, harm or suppress your enemy. You simply help your enemy to overcome whatever is causing that intent to harm.

    Scientology is doing a good job of making itself an enemy of pretty much anyone who is not a Scientologist. They are simply dramatizing Hubbard’s case. That doesn’t make me think of going and harming Scientologists or the Church. I shall do whatever is necessary to prevent this church from harming others. Beyond that I shall do whatever is possible to expose the harmful elements in the Scientology ideology and provide a better philosophy to replace those elements.

    • We are a family and the truth is, we all belong to the same group, “Earth people”.

      I know there are Scientologists that do not consider themselves Earth people. But the fact is, we are all here now and that is exactly what we are. Whether we are “just passing through” or not.

      My point is that if beings are traumatized by past events and sitting in overwhelm, how does it help them to hit them with more force? It is also a denial of responsibility for them.

      I don’t see the Church as REALLY taking responsibility for the people of Earth. Certainly not every man woman and child on Earth. The Sea Org staff are killing off their own children via abortion while taking responsibility for every man woman and child on Earth while hip hopping off to the local abortion clinic? What kind of math is that? Saving mankind why killing them? Who thinks of these things?

      If someone hates you, you could take some responsibility for that. If someone is against you, you could take some responsibility for that. The Church never admits to causing anything in fact, they deny all cause. Google, “The Church of Scientology denies..”

      About 183,000 results (0.30 seconds)

      Anyway it is a mute point. Their own members can’t watch television with out watching the Int Execs lie on national television to millions. And the members are ones that count. The members know they will lie straight faced if it is part of some agenda. What pride does that bring forward in being a Scientologist? Most people involved in Scientology are so ashamed about it they are in the closet about it.

      This is how David chops dissemination lines.

      • My dear TO. I love you. You know that. And thank you for shining your torch on the subject of your article. More light in the chamber of horrors, reveals the scary ‘monsters’ therein and shows up just how much smoke, mirrors, paper mache, sound effects, etc, are just make believe special effects after all, to scare one into parting with their bucks, hey? 🙂

        Although I agree wholeheartedly with your above response: “We are a family and the truth is, we all belong to the same group “Earth people.”

        — In truth, my beloved, if we look a little further, are we not, in truth, actually all a collection of “EARTHLINGS?”

        And therefore, collectively as the remaining dynamics, equally deserving of consideration and respect for life and that of respective habitats in which to live “that” life??

        Just asking? 🙂


      • I agree 100%! I am not over there meddling with them. I have no urge to stop them. I view it as a process that can be highly beneficial.

        I am over here, hoping to lift people up, to put them back in ARC with who they are and the life they have lived. I love them. I admire the life we have lived. I love to be around people who explore the supernatural and magic. I am not a militant and I do not have ethnic cleaning goals to “booby trap systems” or “eradicate certain elements” from society.

        Earth is an eco system in a spiritual sense.

        “Scientology”, is a spirit.

  3. I wonder how many people have actually sat down and applied this formula in full, and, how many times they have done so.

    My experience has been that this full formula is not applied that often. It is not a universal doctrine that colors all who look upon it. It is incidental to the main Scientology auditing doctrines, in my view.

    The essence of the idea is that someone can sit in doubt and not be sure how to proceed. Working out which way to go, can be done by viewing all options and by being circumspect in considering all those affected by your decision. Then one acts and it’s done.

    This is done by thousands of people, in all countries every week. They figure out a new direction and do it. They do it without access to this formula, and still do okay.

    Personally I have found the detailed formulas to be tedious. You can notice your condition, spot a solution and proceed to repair, rapidly, smartly, without considering all steps and heaven forbid, writing it all down. You can just observe, decide and act. Very fast.

    The principle is that there are different conditions, the application of that principle does not need a detailed formula. IMO.

    Making the facts of these choices seems like an all embracing hiatus that affects your future and your purposes, is assigning this too much relative importance.

    You drive down the road. Normal.
    You hit a patch of tricky surface with water and debris. Almost danger. You adjust your driving accordingly.
    You navigate this carefully and drive off once again, back to Normal.

    The principle is the fact of the condition, not its application by rote formula.

    I say all of this as my view, and I assume KSW-esque folks may disagree.

    • Subreption, a condition of Doubt doesn’t require doing the formula every time a decision between alternatives has to be made. Like many things in scientology, there has been a lot of group think and verbal data data on this point, and it becomes an “everybody knows.”. But according to the materials, the Doubt formula comes into use “WHEN ONE CANNOT MAKE UP ONE’S MIND.”

      In other words, its when there is a tough decision to be made that the formula can be quite helpful. It has the person look at the different individuals or groups (that one has to make a choice about) with regard to their intentions, activities and statistics – all very important factors to consider in making up one’s mind.

      • Good feedback Marildi. I like seeing your other comments around and about. Including when Marty bats you off.
        So, the dad is in his corporate suite and has a rock solid appointment with his 10 year old son, at a ball game, at school on Friday afternoon. This has been planned for 3 months now. Everyone at home and work know about it. It is a big deal.
        Suddenly the company has a huge crisis in NYC, far from his home town, and it is HIS role to solve the crisis. This kind of stuff happens. He stands in his office, going through the emotions involved in this tough decision, and weighs everything up, and decides to go to NYC and miss the game. Treason to his son, still okay with his company. That scene flashes past and gets handled. All the conditions are being played out. Some high and some low.

        Doubt is doubt, even if momentary. Treason to his son is also a fact. In that situation in that circumstance on the son dynamic only.

        My point was, the PRINCIPLE of conditions is paramount. The application of actions to get through these conditions, is not the principle. It can be done by anyone and has been done by thousands. Like this guy who has to go to NYC. He is not a Scientologist.

        The use of full formulas to help oneself or others, has great application. Many have used these well. I was offering a hands-on, man-in-the-street view and my opinion.

        Make sense?

      • Subreption, yes, what you wrote makes total sense. Thanks for clarifying.

        And I also appreciated the acks where you wrote, “Good feedback Marildi. I like seeing your other comments around and about. Including when Marty bats you off.”

        Thanks much. 🙂

  4. Before I came into Scn, I would think/say this: When in doubt, say no. It worked very well and I’m using this method again. It still works like a charm and I continuously make the right decisions this way.

    • Hi Subrebtion,

      on your example the father wasn’t at “Treason” with his son at all , neither the father had to apply Doubt to it. These formulas are grossly misunderstood by many.

      Now, his father have a hat to wear with both, his son and the company. By actually handling the emergency at work he is helping the future of his son, as if the father has no place to work, his son won’t have the wherewithal to have a happy life : no good toys, no good education, no good place to live, etc.

      So by his father neglecting to handle this emergency at work to take his son to this game he promised him , he can actually go in Treason regarding the “father hat” as he would be putting his son’s future survival at risk.

      He can just talk to his son, explain this to him and make it up to him by taking him to other place or activity that he always wanted. Now to just handle the work emergency and ignore his son thoughts and feelings on that, would be very wrong too.

      It is really a matter of examining each and every dynamic involved in the sit and give EACH ONE OF THEM, an optimum solution. It is just common sense, which is what Ethics really is. No Doubt formula is needed. In fact, to need it in such an example, would only show gross misunderstanding on the subject of Ethics and survival. And false data too.

      I hope this clarifies.


      • Theta clear, ARC Peter,
        Thanks for the feedback.

        Your comments later to TO.

        “Any other interpretation of this step 3 is “non-Standard” and only shows M/us on it and False Data. That the Church have done it that way you describe doesn’t mean it is ok and standard, it isn’t. It is not LRH that is at fault ; it is us humans applying “justice” to others. Justice can’t be trusted to Man, Homo Sapiens or Homo Novis equally.”

        As I said in my comment, the KSW folks probably will not agree. Later you say:
        “It is not “The Church ” . It is not “COB RTC”. It is only YOU , as hard as it sound and as tough a bullet it is to bite. When everybody in the Filed realizes about this, the solutions will present themselves.”

        Spoken like a loyal Sea Org member. Were you in the SO? Seems like you may still be there, mentally. This is just my informal evaluation. My informal psychoanalysis. Hope you don’t mind.

        You see, this subject is grossly misunderstood as you said earlier, and I agree with you:

        “No Doubt formula is needed. In fact, to need it in such an example, would only show gross misunderstanding on the subject of Ethics and survival. And false data too.”

        Peter has spoken.

        When driving down the road. Normal. Suddenly a car jumps the intersection. Danger. You bypass all normal driving habits and routines and handle the immediate danger, then quickly return to normal, and continue driving, as you were before.

        Does this happen to thousands of people every day? Are these conditions clicking in and clicking out all the time?

        These are OPERATING states.

        Can this happen with lower conditions?

        You and I are having a brew. Normal. Your beer is close to the edge of the table, and wobbles and falls off. I grab the beer as it falls, return it to the table just a little further in than before. Normal. I wore your hat as a beer-bottle-putter-on-table, just for a moment, when the scene suddenly was not normal, and your drink was going to smash onto the floor. We averted the danger.

        Can this happen? Are these conditions? Of course they are. It’s logical. There is nothing wrong with any condition. It is neither good nor bad. It is understanding the PRINCIPLE that is paramount.

        LRH says something cool on the Esto tapes:

        “You don’t want policy jammed cross-wise in your skull.” (Recalled)

        You must be able to think with it. Not be pedantic, prescriptive.

        The above is my opinion, my pedantic lecture for the day!


      • Subreption to Theta Clear : “Spoken like a loyal Sea Org member. Were you in the SO? Seems like you may still be there, mentally. This is just my informal evaluation. My informal psychoanalysis. Hope you don’t mind.”

        I don’t mind at all, after all, what is Grade IV for if not to be able to tolerate other’s fixed ideas ?

        Now, you grossly missed my point , again. Now, here is LRH on the def of responsibility :

        “The nonrecognition and denial of the right of intervention between oneself and any being, idea, matter, energy, space, time or form, and the assumption of full right of determination over it…

        “Full responsibility is not fault; it is recognition of being cause.” LRH

        LRH’s words, not mine. You see, I was actually trying to help you “see the light” but I am not sure you want to. Violate that def above and you are arbitralily assigning Cause to others entities and denying your Cause. One gets into a position then, to be able to be controlled by others at will. One loses power.

        Of course that COB and other Church terminals are acting incredible suppressive. There is no denying that. They should be taken to justice for that. Now, that being said, to pretend ( cause it IS a pretension) that the reason that Scn world wide is on a great debacle due to OTHERs, is a textbook example of “The why is God”. Cause one can’t use that “Why” for nothing except perhaps , to complain all day and feel “better” with our BPC. No “door is open” to handling , only to “fill out complaints”.

        Again, so I can be duplicated and look even more pedantic : “It is not COB ; it is not ‘The Church’ ; it is YOU and ME as scientologists, who failed to apply standard Tech to the sit , PERIOD. How ? By being kool-aid drinkers, by accepting “hidden data lines” w/out doing anything effective about it ; by accepting “Verbal Tech” and spreading it on others, etc, etc.

        If all scientologists , upon the arrival of GAT 1 and Gat 2 , would have challenged any “hidden data lines” and any Verbal Tech coming out of RTC, specially from COB, I guarantee you , it would have never been implemented it. Ever. The sum of all our irresponsibilities as individuals made it happen. That’s the hard , blunt truth.

        So to “handle the sit” , the emphasis should not be placed on COB or “The Church” or any mysterious entity or item. It should be placed on EACH individual scientologists and on getting ach one of them to “change their minds” by presenting them with TRUTH documented. Here some LRH quotes to help clarify the matter :

        “I tell you the only unethical thing I have ever been able to discover is for an individual to deny himself. And if an individual thoroughly enough denies himself, believe me, he’s unethical because he’ll wind up by denying himself and everybody else and everything across the eight dynamics, pang. So that’s real unethical—also immoral.

        “And you’ll find out the downgrade of everybody was when he denied his own strength, truth and power. And so you have to solve that. But it’s a solution that comes rather easily.”

        — L. Ron Hubbard

        Excerpted from the lecture Getting Up Speed, Part II, delivered on 17 November 1953. This lecture can be found in the 2nd American ACC: The Rehabilitation of the Human Spirit.

        And this other :

        “Now, where, wherever—wherever man—wherever man finds himself deeply instilled and engrossed and surrounded with mystery, he is actually in conflict with himself, and himself alone. That is why processing works.

        “The only aberration is denial of self.

        “Nobody else can do anything to you but you. That’s a horrible state of affairs. You can do something to you, but it requires your postulate, your agreement or your disagreement before anything could happen to you.

        “People have to agree to be ill. They have to agree to be stupid. They have to agree to be in mystery. And actually, early on the track did agree to being hornswoggled.”

        — L. Ron Hubbard

        Excerpted from the lecture Survive & Succumb, delivered on 5 July 1959. This lecture can be found in the Theta Clear Congress.

        I rest my case.

        Now, regarding your example of the “father” and his “son” in your hypothetical example ; I can’t imagine the father having to evaluate the real intentions and activitities of his own son, then of his own company, then of himself, then “decide based on the greatest good whether or not …., to then be able to make up his mind. Give me a break, that’s pure nonsense.

        And then according to his son, his father is “at Treason” , which is of course a wrong condition (conditions are not “according to one’s viewpoint, they just are) . I mean, how complex you want this to get?

        In the first place, Doubt is done when an individual “can’t make up his mind” , not in every decision that a persons faces. In second place, as a being goes upscale he can instantly evaluate and put into effect, optimum solutions to his life sits. As I said, it is a matter of common sense.

        Now, as far as my my “Sea Org mentality” you referred to, here my actual viewpoint of a Causative 3rd Dynamic approach, and it happens to be the same as LRH :

        “Now, we have to go well up the Tone Scale in order to get a Third Dynamic group which will survive all by itself and for the group and for the individual too. Why? It’s because high on the Tone Scale you get greater and greater spreads out into the dynamics. As a person goes up the Tone Scale, his ability to control his environment is wider and wider and wider. It includes outer, further dynamics.

        “So until he has controlled all of One, it is almost impossible for him to control Two. And until he has controlled Two, it is almost impossible for him to either control or operate successfully in Three. And until he is able to operate wholly successfully in Three, he can’t operate in Four and so on. It’s an expanding perimeter.

        “If you had a group today on the face of the Earth which was operating on the Third Dynamic, very heavily on the Third Dynamic, which also included the First Dynamic, it would be people who were so facile, who could so easily and so quickly see the proper solutions, there would never be any argument amongst them as to what was best. And they would also be very active! They would not be slothful. They would be going out at a terrific velocity.

        “This Earth today would fall into the possession of that group with such speed, nobody could prevent it. Even the group couldn’t prevent it. It is not that anybody is forming up such a corps to do that, but actually, any group operating First and Third simultaneously on a high level of survival would be so far above any existing group on the face of Earth today that people would start around, looking at it, because it would be cause. It would be able tozu cause things which no other group could cause and the people would start looking at it for solutions.”

        — L. Ron Hubbard

        IQuote excerpted from the lecture Acquisition of Bodies delivered on 27 June 1952. This can be found in the Technique 88

        I offer free cramming services for anyone who needs W/Cing and FDSing on these subjects.

        Now, how’s that for a pedantic , prescriptive lecture, ah ?

        ARC PETER

      • Starship, you say touché Peter. But you just say no, as your doubt formula? Me no understand, unless you were being facetious? Peter is saying you have MUs and false data and are non-standard?

      • Peter. Thanks for taking the time to find and paste all those quotes.
        You missed my point, again. It’s not easy getting an easy back and forth in written form, with complex content.
        The comment that prompted my “spoken like a loyal sea org member” was the second half of what I quoted. You said:
        “When everybody in the Filed realizes about this, the solutions will present themselves.”
        This is so judgmental and arrogant, it confirms the causes of people leaving the current church and having no respect for sea org members who are still in.
        I agree Peter. YOU are the cause. Your attitude is sad. This makes me sad. The potential the subject has, especially the fact of the principles I tried to share with you, has been trashed for anyone who might have been interested.
        The blood is on our hands, including yours. Chasing people away by operating as you have shown here, is part of what has contributed to the demise of the subject. Take a look around you. Where is everybody in the field?
        Everybody in the field who just don’t get what you are saying. All us assholes who have no clue that we are cause, and by your statement, obviously don’t think that way. All of us lesser being, not as bright as you, need to be told what is wrong with us.
        As a “member” of the field, I call b/s on your statement.
        End of lecture.

      • Dear Subreption ,

        By quoting LRH, I wasn’t attempting to invalidate any SO members or ex-SO members. My only purpose is to get people to Cause by getting them to beleive in their power to change things by not denying self. I included me in the group, remember ?

        If we , as scienfologist, don’t realize that the solutions to the current sit lies completely within ourselves , we will lose the game. Blaming DM and the Church will only give them more power and wind us at Effect. No solutions will present themselves as we would be operating on “The Why is God” , as we, as individuals, can’t directly influence the Church as an entity nor can’t directly control DM.

        “WHYs” has to be things that you can directly influence and control from your position and authority. See the HCOPL in the Management Series, vol 2 in the “Data Series”. It is call, “The Why is God”.

        My emphasising that PL is only an attempt to help you guys to take your attention from DM and the Church and start placing it on courses of action that would bring about better conditions and survival potentials. It is not an attempt to place any blame on anyone. Sorry if you interpreted it that way and it upset you.

        Every being has a great potential to effect changes on others around them. The power that lies within each of us is immense indeed. I want people to realize about that, I want you to realize about that. If we, as scientologists, including myself, would have been a little bit more active in handling “hidden data lines” that were presented to us by “known best” terminals. And if we, as scientologists would have rejected any verbal Tech from such tetminals, the current sit would be entirely other.

        I got one friend that I was doing a very through PTS handling on, to handle all hidden data lines and verbal Tech from all the sups and the C/S himself. He singly handled all all them to protect his PC that was being severely overrun on her Objectives. I FDSed him of each and every false datum he had been subjected to and drilled him intensy on never accepting any hidden data line and/or verbal Tech and accept the consequences of doing so with the Code of Honor In. The result of this was that he was able to standardly audit his PC and gave her great wins, life changing ones. Her long unhandled PTS condition just vanished.

        I am talking here (regarding this friend I handled) of a scientologist who is not even an Objectives completion, much less Clear, with very limited training. In fact, only the SH and few Div-6 courses. Now, how’s that for confront ?

        So I am not talking from a “Ivory Tower” here, Subreption. I am actually doing something about it and putting my action where I put my words. I never talk from an Ivory Tower. I have done very effective things about many squirrel scenes in my track in SCN. Icluding several battles, single handed, against whole Orgs and Int terminals. I speak from action and experience. I have earned my right to speak about these things.

        What we need as scientologists is more actual action and less talk and complaints.

        I hope this clarifies for you my real intentions and activities. Now you can decide whether I am for real or not, whether I am a friend or not. Ok?

        Take care and feel free to get in comm with me any time you want.


        ARC PETER

  5. I would often apply the conditions by thinking them through and just doing and applying. Or when I checked out the condition from the book would find I’d applied it anyhow. I was constantly told that I needed to write the formulas down to put them into the physical universe. What’s this?
    I couldn’t stand to be so pendantic. Just isn’t my thing to be so.

  6. Very good article, Oracle. Thanks for posing this aspect of the condition. I would never have thought of analysing it in this way myself.

    I had trouble with the “attack, harm or suppress” too. I found it extreme and hard to work with. I always found it a difficult condition to do. However, I was so stuck on believing everything Hubbard said that I didn’t doubt that he was right even if I didn’t get it.
    He was right and I was….. what? Wow!

  7. Read all, thanks for the feedback. The interesting thing is that the doubt formula is above the enemy formula. So you are supposed to be out of an enemy condition already when doing doubt,
    You are supposed to be above enemy. But then on the doubt formula you are pushed back into enemy considerations and purposes.

    If I just worked out of an enemy condition, why would I be making decision to harm attack or suppress people? Why am I wallowing in enemy purposes on a doubt formula?

    I have not found many people who ever really thought with the conditions enough to ask these kinds of questions.

    • The big oputpoint that I see is the assumption that one should be attackling, harming and suppressing one’s enemies.

      Why can’t we handle an enemy with Scientology technology? Looks like it is assumed that the Scientology technology is incapable of handling harmful intentions from the start.

      Afterall, an “enemy” is simply dramatizing. He can be restrained from harming and then straightened out with auditing.

      This makes it look like that Scientology tech has severe limitations. It cannot handle SPs/PTSs either with auditing. It immediately goes into punishment or disconnection mode. Essentially it is asking the enemies, SPs and PTSs to handle their own cases by themselves.

      Another way of looking at this situation is that whenever Scientology Tech fails on a person, that person is labeled as PTS, SP or an enemy, and then he is left to his own devices to handle himself. This is quite a non-confront on part of Scientology, isn’t it?

      I don’t think that it can clear the planet with this strategy.


    • The Oracle: “If I just worked out of an enemy condition, why would I be making decision to harm attack or suppress people?”

      My understanding is that a person wouldn’t have gone into an Enemy condition towards a specific individual or group unless they had gone into Doubt first – that is to say, their own purposes must not have been aligned with that individual or group, at least temporarily. So whether or not the misalignment was just temporary, a bad decision on their part, is something that should be looked at. Thus, when you’ve worked out of Enemy by deciding “WHO YOU REALLY ARE” – which would indicate what your purposes are – you can decide, as per the Doubt formula, which individual or group your purposes do align with.

      Then you get to the part of the formula where you consider how you should treat the individual or group you have chosen not to be part of. And if you now realize that particular individual or group is hindering your own purposes, such as the way Miscavige hinders many people’s purposes, then you might decide to attack, harm or suppress him/them.

      • Vinaire: “To me attack, harm or suppress are very negative impulses. The enemy is still part of my 4th dynamic.”

        Just to give a simple example, I think if an intruder in your home was threatening your family you would not be at all reluctant to attack him if that was necessary to keep him from doing harm. The basic point of ethics is “greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics.”

      • I see stopping another from committing harm as different from outright attacking, harming and suppressing the other person.

        You may justify it anyway you want.

      • “then you might decide to attack, harm or suppress him/them.”

        Right, especially if you are ordered to do that to get “upgraded” by the group.. “might decide” is not written in the ethics book. Must decide is the way it goes. And you are given a short list to pick an item from.

      • T.O., I would have to agree with you that the conditions formulas were grossly misapplied by the group whenever its members did not allow the individual to operate on the greatest good for the greatest number of HIS/HER dynamics – which would be the case if the formulas were actually followed. I was referring to the workability of the formulas themselves as written in the book.

        Also, you wrote, “And you are given a short list to pick an item from.” What other choices would you add to those?

      • marildi
        on October 1, 2014 at 5:10 am said:
        Also, you wrote, “And you are given a short list to pick an item from.” What other choices would you add to those?

        Well Miraldi, I have to tell you that before I got involved in Scientology I really did not think terms of “having enemies”. I didn’t actually didn’t have any. If I encountered a hostile individual I just switched lanes. Distanced myself from them. Involved in Scientology, I viewed the others as friends of Hubbard’s, not my friends. The people he viewed as enemies, I viewed as his enemies, not my enemies.

        I actually never had a personal enemy until very late in my Scientology staff career. Then I accumulated some in the Independent Movement. That happens when you converse on forums and bring strangers to your home. It mostly happened between people who did something to hurt my kids in some way.

        Before that, if someone was hostile, I just “let it go”. It’s not like someone was ever standing in my way. Not in or with Scientology. When I left the Church I wasn’t stopped on the bridge. I found someone else to deliver outside of the Church.

        I felt bad about accumulating a few enemies in the Independent movement until I realized that the people who were in an enemy condition towards me, actually were in an enemy condition to a lot of other people too. They were mean to a lot of people, had huge enemy lists, so I didn’t take it personally. Just because someone else is in an enemy condition towards me, doesn’t mean I have to copy them.

        So to answer your question about what other choices I would have beyond harm attack or suppress?

        Keep on walking, don’t look back. That’s me.

      • Walla! I didn’t have enemies either before scientology or ever thought such a thing. True what you say in your post, thank you.

      • Okay, T.O., I see where you’re coming from. And I don’t doubt that you and others have been forced to act on one of those choices – attack, harm, suppress or help. But that would be a misapplication of the formula. Here is what it says exactly:

        “Decide on the basis of ‘the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics’ whether or not it should be attacked, harmed or suppressed or helped.”

        From the above, it seems clear to me that the person is simply to decide “whether or not” s/he SHOULD do one of those things – not that one of them must be chosen and carried out as part of the formula. And what I get from you is that you generally feel none of those things “should” be done. As I see it, that is totally fine per the formula itself.

      • Unless you are being stalked by someone, then you only need to face them.

        I was stalked by one person in the Independent movement. I hired a law firm in Canada to send a cease and desist letter. Cost me several thousand dollars. I paid it.

        Another person in the Independent movement threatened to sue me, my husband and children after he got busted for out tech and other matters with a nanny cam. I hired a lawyer and an investigator. I could have obtained an arrest warrant but he submerged so I let it ride.

        I do what other people do. I hire a lawyer. I get someone else to wear the hat of dealing with enemies, so I can focus on other things.

        I could have sued a few people and easily won. Those people did things that effected my children in bad ways. But the thing is, those people had kids, and I knew if I sued them, their kids would also pay in some way. And I did not feel like heaping injustice on their kids for their crimes. So, I let it go. And I really don’t think about it all that often. Because I recently got L12. And you handle this kind of thing on L12, Op Terming.

        If you are smart, by the time you are done with L12, you know the mechanics so if you run into a hostile, you can deal with it very fast in your own mind, the same way you did in the sessions. You can give it up. You have that ability.

      • Stalking, as in the way Marty, Karen, and Mike were stalked and fair gamed and harassed with domestic terrorism. Then you should face it. That is really all they are doing now, facing it.

    • Hubbard is assuming that the two groups that you have to decide between are enemies of each other. This is extreme on Hubbard’s part.

      Why do those two groups have to be enemies of each other? This only shows extreme aggression on Hubbard’s part who was not known to be compassionate at all. His logic was binary… either you are with me or you are against me.


      • Vinaire: “Hubbard is assuming that the two groups that you have to decide between are enemies of each other.”

        No, that isn’t actually the case. It’s up to the person doing the formula to decide if the two groups are “enemies” or not. Based on what he comes up with when doing the formula, he may decide to HELP the other group, even though he has decided not to join (or remain in) that one. Here’s the exact formula:

        CONDITION OF DOUBT: When one cannot make up one’s mind as to an individual, a group, organization or project a Condition of Doubt exists.

        The formula is:
        1. Inform oneself honestly of the actual intentions and activities of that group, project or organization, brushing aside all bias and rumor.
        2. Examine the statistics of the individual, group, project or organization.
        3. Decide on the basis of ”the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics” whether or not it should be attacked, harmed or suppressed or helped.
        4. Evaluate oneself or one’s own group, project or organization as to intentions and objectives.
        5. Evaluate one’s own or one’s group, project or organization’s statistics.
        6. Join or remain in or befriend the one which progresses toward the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics and announce the fact publicly to both sides.
        7. Do everything possible to improve the actions and statistics of the person, group, project or organization one has remained in or joined.
        8. Suffer on up through the conditions in the new group if one has changed sides, or the conditions of the group one has remained in if wavering from it has lowered one’s status.

      • My point was Hubbard suggesting that anyone opposed to you may be attacked, harmed or suppressed.

        Such impulses would not even come to my mind if I have a tech that can handle all cases.

      • Miraldi, Thanks for posting the entire formula. This is another command:

        Suffer. You are instructed to “Suffer on up through the conditions”.

        Suffer is a purpose. You are told that in Scientology your suffering will come to an end if you keep going up the bridge.

        Then you are asked to suffer.

        This can key people in, and I have seen a lot of people wallowing in this “suffering” required.

        How many people have you seen suffering in Scientology? I have seen a lot of it, within the Sea Org areas of operation. Those people wallow in suffering more than any group of people I have ever run across. It is a purpose.

        Before I ever got involved in Scientology I made a decision that I had suffered enough. Then it just ended.

        So, sorry, that was not an option for me. There were people in the Sea Org who ordered me to suffer. What do you think you doing to another human being when you order them to work all night and not sleep?

        I walked right off the Flag Land Base. Fuck that. Took them six months of heavy inviting me back before I returned. They started with threats and I hung up the phone. Then they sent people with flowers. Nice looking Sea Org men too!

      • And Miraldi, Something very interesting happened on the cycle. The person who was willing me suffer, got busted down and put on my post after I left. Laughter!

    • You are so right, Oracle. Why push someone back into enemy?
      And I’m sure there are not many, if any at all other than yourself, who’s ” ever really thought with the conditions enough to ask these kinds of questions.”
      100+ 🙂

      • Damn right! This blog is getting so high brow I think it’s chased all the South Africans away!

      • Maven , Laughter! The South Africans I have known, I have been very impressed with. I would think my posts about my Scientology views would fly here better than anywhere! I know a lot more about Africa and the people in it, and what is happening there politically and socially, than many would suspect. I just wrapped up a seven year consulting cycle on a huge legal situation that involved a U.S. Congressman, (he actually changed a U.S. law so the case could go to trial here) a family that was forced to flee Zimbabwe, and one of the most powerful figures in Africa. That took a lot of research and the scandal will be buried forever, as everyone reached an agreement and confidentiality contracts were signed. I think I have a good awareness of conditions in Africa and South Africa.

      • But if you know anyone who needs a head line for a local or national news, and a huge story, Galante settled! This is a huge story, should be a book written about it. Galante is part of the famous Mafia family in New York and it is quite curious that the New York Mafia has stretched into Africa. He is politically connected and he just gets wealthier and wealthier! So curious!


      • The point is, a young woman from Zimbabwe dragged a New York City mobster out of Africa and all the way through the legal system in California and put his ethics in. Laughter!

      • T.O – 1st of all my compliments to you for your wisdom, courage, and wonderful observational powers. And not just here on this post. That’s paying a long due debt which you deserve!…Done.
        Your take on the formula no.3 list is interesting. I had the same thoughts many times. for example, choosing between 2 different partners, or products or operations, where both sides were basically good, and the formula was done to
        determine which will be better. Not being on staff, I mostly did the conditions with a friend or with myself, (lucky me!!) so I never had this rote, robotic, literal and sometimes plain stupid approach with them. (The one time I DID, it was under Eligibility duress: rote, forced, silly, with wrong conditions and wrong everything! THAT was indeed horrible.). SO, doing the conditions in an easy, logical, “if its true to you” approach, I must say was nearly always a big joy, with great wins. I swear…! Was even better than auditing. And when no. 3 (short, I agree T.O) list did not apply I would say it and we would go on evaluating the group without attacking nor helping it if that was the reality involved. And it was fine.
        Looking again at the sentence, it says: whether or not …English is not my main lingo – but doesn’t it mean YOU decide whether to apply any item of the list OR NOT?
        So, doing these conditions in a good up-tone way, with a good WISE terminal, including the LOW ones Marty and others hate so much, used to be FUN!
        Sure, hard work and confront at times, but as one is going up, it gets easier as soon as one truly confronts. And the relief, used to be almost immediate.
        If you did it right, intelligently, and by spotting RIGHT conditions. And Ron does say somewhere that working on a condition, one might jump a few conditions up,
        and this is so true. But if you miss it, you’re fucked…like missing F/N or overrun in auditing.
        About “suffer”, I do actually agree with Ron on that one. Especially on way up from lower conditions. When you betrayed somebody or some cause
        and you face it and go up, doing doubt is a huge relief. But before joy and happiness settle on one, there are usually things TO DO which are not easy at times requiring even some sacrifices. That is the suffer bit. I can give many examples but this is long enough now. But of course it is not a “victim suffer” but a responsible being suffering willingly, JUST FOR A LIMITED WHILE, and GLADLY, to make things right. Like I did here at the start, having betrayed T.O by never commenting on her wisdom and other qualities, in spite of being aware of them for ages, I had no choice but to “suffer” at this late hour, being so busy, and DO IT ALREADY…! Great posts T.O..!
        The important thing is that that “suffering” should be short and sweet, and soon enough one should be singing at normal. and dancing at Affluence…
        And one last thing: Marildi, my admiration to you too, what I am trying to say so clumsily, in so many words, you say usually with a few precise sentences.
        If I will ever establish an Indie service, (which I won’t..) you would be my choice for: RTC…Reliable Thinking Capacity….

      • Thank you kindly for that warm and wonderful acknowledgement Hemi. I am so glad you have been gentle with these conditions and applying them. I consider the ethics conditions mercy, when used wisely, kindly and with great mercy. Mercy, a word we seldom use in this game. But truly I beleive, the purpose of auditing at it’s best. XXOO

      • Which reminds me Hemi, I want to acknowledge Marty Rathbun for helping me find my voice. Whatever people think about his views and which way they go, many of us had to develop a new voice for speaking out loud, for freely sharing, for opening up on a subject that was so taboo to speak about. Not even allowed to speak about. He created a platform for so many of us to have a voice, and to even figure out we had a voice. Or could have a voice. It wasn’t real to me that I would ever have a voice in Scientology or that anyone cared to hear my voice until I was given a platform over there to find out what my voice really was. What did Hubbard do for us? He taught us how to have meaningful conversations. And I think Marty has carried that torch forward. XXOO

      • There are so many blogs now, so many forums, so many twitter and face book pages where great conversations are happening all over the place. People are talking about Scientology!

  8. Also, why is it always necessary to “join a group” to improve your condition?

    a number of people or things that are located close together or are considered or classed together.

    You do have people running around everywhere thinking they must cling to a group condition.

    There is some truth to this as we are human. Groups can help a person. So what group did Hubbard join to start up Dianetics and Scientology?

    Diantetics is and always has been promoted as mental health. So he joined the group of mental health professionals.

    When he converted to Scientology, what group did he join? He said, “Our source is magic.”

    “But mysticism/occultism isn’t our source. Our source, actually, is magic. Magic is something that, today, is performed on a stage with prestidigitation. But magic actually has a much more vivid and noble history than a stage magician. It is quite remarkable that the magician attempts directly to use spirits to perform his will. And that is his basic modus operandi. That is his goal in practicing magic.”from a Lecture given on 29 January 1958, The History of Clearing by L Ron Hubbard.

    “Scientology has opened the gates to a better World. It is not a psycho-therapy nor a religion. It is a body of knowledge which, when properly used, gives freedom and truth to the individual.” This is from 1954 edition of COHA.

    “It is quite remarkable that the magician attempts directly to use spirits to perform his will.” from a Lecture given on 29 January 1958, The History of Clearing by L Ron Hubbard.

    Let’s explore this body of knowledge and where we could comfortably place it. I believe it is very much in a magic dynamic.
    Take this for instance.
    Magical formulae
    A magical formula is generally a name, word, or series of letters whose meaning illustrates principles and degrees of understanding that are often difficult to relay using other forms of speech or writing. It is a concise means to communicate very abstract information through the medium of a word or phrase, usually regarding a process of spiritual or mystical change. Common formulae include INRI, IAO, ShT, AUMGN, NOX, and LVX.
    These words often have no intrinsic meaning in and of themselves. However, when deconstructed, each individual letter may refer to some universal concept found in the system that the formula appears. Additionally, in grouping certain letters together one is able to display meaningful sequences that are considered to be of value to the spiritual system that utilizes them .
    So take these for instance:
    Well, this is just for starters.
    What are P.C. folders? Why are P.C. folders?
    Magical record
    A magical record is a journal or other source of documentation containing magical events, experiences, ideas, and any other information that the magician may see fit to add. There can be many purposes for such a record, such as recording evidence to verify the effectiveness of specific procedures (per the scientific method that Aleister Crowley claimed should be applied to the practice of magick) or to ensure that data may propagate beyond the lifetime of the magician. Benefits of this process vary, but usually include future analysis and further education by the individual and/or associates with whom the magician feels comfortable in revealing such intrinsically private information.
    Crowley was highly insistent upon the importance of this practice. As he writes in Liber E, “It is absolutely necessary that all experiments should be recorded in detail during, or immediately after, their performance (…) The more scientific the record is, the better. Yet the emotions should be noted, as being some of the conditions. Let then the record be written with sincerity and care; thus with practice it will be found more and more to approximate to the ideal.” Other items he suggests for inclusion include the physical and mental condition of the experimenter, the time and place, and environmental conditions, including the weather.
    So being, P.C. Folders can be regarded as magical records.
    Oh yes, finding out where you are, is part of noticing conditions.

    You can walk into a building with the label “Church” on it. And the receptionist can inform you that you are in a Church. And the people there can tell you “You are in a religion” “You are a member of the Church. You are part of this religion”.
    But it is still on you to find out where you REALLY are.

    You know, Hubbard was very, very forthcoming about this in the beginning. The first people to arrive as students, they were empowered. They could read the books. They could audit. They could think with the “Scientology”. They went clear. They made clears. Everything was hunky dorey. Everyone was V.G.I.s. They perceived themselves as dabbling in the occult and they were willing to manage those forces and conditions.

    You compare those people to the people who showed up later who perceived themselves as religious devotees. Militia. Involved with “religion” and “policing the nation (getting ethics in on the planet) and wow, did the whole theater devolve into some sticky black magic.

    People have some issues with words. What they can associate with. Some people only associate. The people who associate Scientology with the occult and the supernatural, are going to be a whole ‘nother breed than someone free falling though that with the goal of harnessing the miscreants in this section of the galaxy, and the people free falling though that with the purpose of becoming a “Jesus healer”. Or a “holy man”.

    You have different groups attracted to this activity because of various symbols and words and they stick on different purpose lines and get stuck in GPM’s and op terming.

    Hubbard: “MAGIC is a very precise study. Most people think of magic in terms of stage magicians or something of the sort. It’s not. Magic is not. It is a method of producing effects by using for cause the supernatural. 5203C10.

    Hubbard: “If you want to get real tragic, forget it was just magic.”

    I think there is some fear of magic. You can label it something else though and people rush in the front door. Hubbard put the “Church” through many identities.

    The current identity of the Church of Scientology is managed by David Miscavige. The identity he has created is a wide departure from what most of us were first introduce to. It is, an identity.

    If you look at any admin scale, “ideal scene” is far below purpose and goal.


    The current identity of the Church is stuck in Ideal Scenes (We can not clear people until we have ideal orgs).

    This is his leadership, all the way south.

    “Illegal policy set at unauthorized levels jams the actions of a group and IS responsible for the inactivity, nonproduction or lack of team spirit.

    “Counter-policy independently set jams the group together but inhibits its operation.” — LRH

    So, getting back to the issue of “joining groups”, what group did Hubbard join to launch Scientology?

    There are so many identity issues and problems with the Church right now, hidden identities, false identities, enemy identities, that is has become a group with identity problems. So what group are you joining when you decide to join the group of Scientologists? Can you even say?

    I couldn’t begin to tell you what that means. “Scientologist” is an identity crisis.

    • I can give you a simple example of finding it hard to flex with identity changes.

      Say you go to some event and you meet someone you like. That member of the opposite sex submits their identity as being “single”. You date this person, this person moves in with you, you love this person, and one day you find out this person is still very married. I mean, this happened to me.

      Are you really supposed to do a doubt formula to decide to leave? Yes! You are. But you see how YOUR OWN condition just went south into a lower condition? Now you have to decide if you want to be a home wrecker and you get shoved into your own case deciding if you are up to running all over someone else’s life to keep your own together. (I left by the way)

      It happened in the Church. After confessing in sessions year after year I get to the Flag Command Bureau, the “land of the most Sea Org Members” to find the people at the top were criminals! Doing things I never would have done on my worst days!

      You marry up with identities. When that identity shifts, do you still belong? You literally are forced to reckon with whether you have to shift your own identity now.

      And people in the Church do. You look at those Sea Org members and tell me how many of them were like that before they got involved with Scientology.

    • By the way, speaking of David Miscavige’s trend to drag the organization down south on the admin scale, if you wonder about all of the current conflict:

      “This scale is worked up and worked down UNTIL IT IS (EACH ITEM) IN FULL AGREEMENT WITH THE REMAINING ITEMS.

      “Groups appear slow, inefficient, unhappy, inactive or quarrelsome only when these items are not aligned, made known and coordinated. — LRH”

      Not all of us care to be all the south on admin scales.

      The people supporting him now are people stuck into ideal scenes.

      Purpose is senior. Don’t beat yourself up for not getting dragged south.

    • P.S. on “Ideal Scenes”.

      If you look all over the internet right now, you will see the Sea Org has taken over L.A. Org.

      David will keep spreading them out to take over the new “Ideal Orgs” as it is all Sea Org property.

      He got all of those public to buy him all of that real estate and now he is moving his crews in to take over the buildings. Once he gets it done with out protest in L.A., he will spread out his crews and take control of his real estate empires.

      But I have to tell you this, do you wonder why a very very very very small percentage staff make it as registrars and div staff? You have to have high ARC people on the front lines that really care about other people.

      The F.S.O. staff don’t even deal with raw public or new public.

      You will see how the Sea Org has no regard for contracts when it is not for their benefit. They will boot every staff member out of L.A. Org regardless of their staff contract. They will not bother to deliver anything that was promised to them in terms of their training or auditing.

      Shake it up Dave! Divide and conquer!

    • “Closing or combining orgs with their Foundations is unlawful and is an act of high Treason. Planning for the opening of new orgs is the duty of each OES. All such planning must include the primary target of having and training staff.” L Ron Hubbard

      Note: David Miscavige is combining Orgs, closing Orgs, and tossing staff out on the streets.

      He is in the middle of a comm ev in Texas and on the ethics gradients he is in “wait” , waiting for the legal process.

    • He also just hit pay dirt. L.A. Org has been around socking money reserves away for decades. Someone just reported on a blog, “When I was there in ’10-’12, I recall there being over 10 million in assets and reserves. It would only have increased since then.”

      Guess who just took over that bank account?

      • Oracle, I enjoyed all your comments above. Very interesting points about magic.

    • Thanks,this has got me thinking.

      You have provided an approach which most scientologists have never considered – magic or should I say Magik.

      The group we all join was scientology, an entity which was created by Hubbard. He was the game maker, he made the rules, he was senior to his game.

      Were we players or were we his pawns?

      Good words The Oracle.

      • To be honest with you, I think he was really on his game with magic. He usre was able to get others to do his bidding. Laughter!

        I do not have any animosity towards Hubbard. He lived life on his own terms, and so did I. We were all pioneers into the supernatural. Pioneering has never been easy.

        Some people are happy with the lives they have lived, some people are not. It is not just in Scientology. It is all over the world.

        Hubbard gets blamed for everything bad, or praised for everything good, by many people that explored Scientology. I did neither. He was never in any room I was in, while I was involved in it. I thanked my auditor and the staff in the Org when something good happened to me. And if something bad happened, I knew where it was coming from. It wasn’t L. Ron Hubbard.

      • Wise comment!
        People forget at times theirown responsibility for agreeing to stupid, abusive, bad, violent data or behaviour.

    • Oracle I enjoyed how you related Magic with Scientology. For me it was kind of like magic and logic, at least some of it. It was like LRH started out with a magical, spiritual frame of mind and then got dragged into fighting and solidity and it carried some of the group down with him.

      • Magic and logic is a very good description I think. I agree about Hubbard. From what I have seen was a human being. He had a body, a car, a wife, kids, friends, dreams, hobbies and interests.

        He also had wrong items put on him, wrong indications, out lists, wrong whys, false reports and treason. I never read anywhere him say he was above the heartaches.

        He did not speak of much of love. And I think he missed the boat on some that. We talk of opposition terminals, but there is a flip side of that, an opposite side of that, that I realized after L12, that is just as charged. Just think of the opposite of oppose, and you will understand.

        He was brilliant and brave and he led us down paths that were the only paths to certain adventures. People get upset when we talk about his ideas and words, but in this way we honor him and immortalize him. As we carry on conversations that bring us so much pleasure, based on ideas he laid on the table.

        He did open some wrong doors and he tried to fix those things. He did have some blind spots. Great men can have great flaws. I have thought of him as a mirror, in which I looked, to find out something about who I really am.

        We are capable of showing him mercy too for any mis steps. And we are capable of showing one another mercy. And until we do that we will not really know the mercy Scientology has every potential of being.

    • T.O – you are welcome! But I forgot the most important compliment: ORIGINAL!
      About your acknowledgement to Marty Rathbun, I can’t agree more.
      He did open up the way for so many, including yours humbly, and long ago I have found it difficult to find words to thank and acknowledge him enough.
      Full respect and love to him. Part of that respect is when I don’t agree with him, it is vital to express that too, and be true to myself. That’s what you are talking about: Having one own’s VOICE! That’s what we lost in the CoS, and have regained on leaving, each in his own way.
      You say “meaningful conversations”. Wonderfully put. I remember when I 1st got into Marty’s blog, the biggest shock..huge shock, was to find meaningful conversations, outside an auditing room. After years of boredom on a communication level, not because people were dumb (well, some were..) but because people were not free, and had to be careful what they said and to whom. Later even being careful was not necessary, because the indoctrination was so deeply imbeded, that comm was “East Gernan syle” anyway. And there I was in the blog, with free people, wise, original, each one has his own take on things, without having to quote endlessly, even when not needed. It was HEAVEN! I finally found the true products of the system, outside the system: clever, witty, wise and funny people, with sanity level up in the sky. Integrity and courage too. God, look at us here as well, read the comments, what more can we ask from a group of people. Including the wonderful quality: “not perfect, far from it”, which most possess. And so, keep developing!!
      I believe even now that the true “products” (hate that word, useful though..) of Scientology – done wisely, intelligently, or as you wonderfully put it “gently” – namely us people, are here to view and enjoy and..further develop. Just needs to be observed.
      You, Marty, Mike, Marildi, Vinaire, Alanzo, David STL,Val, ..may be even me, as much as we disagree, we are no herd of robots. And I just realized that naming names was a mistake because there are HUNDREDS more…
      Yes, Big cognition…

      • Nice comment, Hemi. I relate.
        To say what you think without fear, to be able to express your opinions freely, to just say things as they are and not have to consider first whethe or not it’s okay to say it, not to be continuously on guard, not to have to suppress communication because it would be dangerous or deemed an enemy line or CI……
        THIS is a very big thing!

      • Almost romantic sentiment 🙂 Us the last of the Scio free peoples looking to come back and unite the divided group and get back in the fight- gotta love it! Good game, lets play!!

  9. I never took those words as items (like from listing and nulling) myself.

    I personally have had great benefit from doing ethics conditions. I did many ethics handling on people to very good result.

    The enemy condition for example is: Find out Who you Really are.

    My only complaint on this is that LRH gave such minimal data on how to achieve this. I found a way that worked for me. It was using the BE-DO-HAVE scale and using a policy called Planning by Product.

    The essence of this was to find the HAVINGNESS you want then you do the DOINGNESS to get it and you will achieve the BEINGNESS.

    So for example on the first dynamic you might determine you were an enemy to yourself essentially by doing something against yourself, you just look at what havingness you want for yourself on the first dynamic. Integrity, certainty calmness etc on the first dynamic. You may find that you don’t have those things, instead you may have weakness, uncertainty and fear. So you start on a gradient to have integrity, certainty and calmness. It isn’t all or nothing because the conditions are a gradual level of improvement in any given area. If you had all those attributes in spades then you would be in AFFLUENCE or POWER in that area.

    So once you know who you really are and see the things that you were being/doing/having to be an enemy to yourself then you can do the DOUBT formula between those two things to see which side you want to work for or towards. Deciding to HARM or SUPPRESS or ATTACK or HELP to me always meant to attack the bad beingness that I had been operating on. Not in a literal way but figuratively to attack that beingness head on. Same with the word SUPPRESS. It can mean to hold it back, hold back an urge to do something that isn’t what you really want to be doing.

    I’m not saying that some people didn’t use these conditions to hurt others, they did. LRH said that “Man cannot be trusted with Justice”. I find that very true.

    Most of the ethics conditions failed because they were being used as punishment instead of trying to help the person.

    My orientation on using ethics conditions were to help people not to use them in a damaging way and for the most part they worked for me.

    I did Repairing Past Ethics Conditions when it first came out in 1982 and had HUGE wins from it. I spotted a time when I was in an enemy condition to my family from when I was in high school. I was smoking weed and getting into a lot of trouble and am sure it had a negative effect on my family. I went to my house and talked to my parents and told them in terms they could understand that I thought I could have been a better son to them and I was sorry for the damage I had created. I then dug a stump out of the yard for them and painted their house. I told them this was a way of saying I’m sorry and if they could forgive me. They said yes, and were pretty blown out. I was feeling real go

    • Tony: “I was feeling really good too.”

      I felt good just reading about it!

      I did RPEC (Repair of Past Ethics Conditions) as part of the Life Orientation Course and had great wins – even doing it wrong. The condition was supposed to be done in present time, the way you did it. But back when I was on the LOC course it was being done in a way that you mocked up the formula you would have, or should have, done. We learned later that wasn’t correct, but I got great benefit anyway. I always figured that was because there is workability to processes that get you to imagine (this is according to other LRH references), even though such processes may not be the best for a given situation.

      As for the rest of your post, I think it shows you had conceptual understanding of the tech overall and were able to think with it. Good on you!

      • Marildi me dear, wait wait, we need to discuss this. I did REPAIR THE PAST ETHIC CONDOTION, as it says. We repair the past, sit, as the title says clearly. Than we can be ready, and go fix the present condition. Worked marvels for me.
        Hell. how can you repair a past condition where you hurt someone (enemy) who is no longer alive. Go look for him in another body in India? Or If I got killed in the past (He asks to go as early as possible), and try to repair that LOW condition, how can I repair that in present time? I see it “as if it is in present time”.
        You can’t have a semi-trailer truck broken, and go repair a private toyota. Its a different car!
        Am sure you have great replies to that. Let’s see. Can do also in private.

      • Hi Hemi!

        Nice meeting up with you, all the way over here in South Africa. 😉

        For some reason, I didn’t receive email notifications of your comments, but I saw T.O.’s reply where she mentioned your name. So then I found your comments – you added some great contributions to the motion! And thanks for the validations, you sweetie pie. 🙂

        This is a good point you bring up in the above comment. You wrote:

        “Hell, how can you repair a past condition where you hurt someone (enemy) who is no longer alive. Go look for him in another body in India? Or If I got killed in the past (he asks to go as early as possible), and try to repair that LOW condition, how can I repair that in present time? I see it ‘as if it is in present time’.”

        Here are some lines from the “Repairing Past Ethics Conditions” PL:

        “The handling is simply to handle in present time the correct condition for that situation or time period… He is applying the formula to THAT unhandled condition, not a present time situation or anything else.”

        We may be saying the same thing. Using your example of hurting someone who was no longer alive, the way I got it (after the correction was made to all the Sups and students), you would find a similar terminal (or group or project) in PT and do the formula on him. Let’s say it was a soldier you had hurt – in that case, you could do the formula actions in relation to some present time soldier, or soldiers in general (not that you would do it on an actual “present time situation” of your own, of course, as per the PL).

        Is this the kind of thing you mean? If not, please explain how you would apply conditions in this example. (Remember, even RTC was supposed to have checks and balances. 😀 )

    • This post just goes to show what a truly good natured person you are Tony. I can believe you found creative ways to help people use these tools to improve their life.

      I guess mostly what I have seen on the third flow of ethics with others to others, are write ups people have asked me sign when I was in the Sea Org. Reading about “effective blows to enemies”. Seeing the gleam and determination in their eyes. Realizing they were totally keyed in. Very serious and massy.

    • By the way, you say, “I never took those words as items (like from listing and nulling) myself.

      If Write it this way:


      Instead of this way: Harm, attack suppress or help.

      Can you see it as a list with items on it?

      • Hi Oracle,

        If it was written that way maybe. I never took it that way is all I am trying to say.

        The application of ethics (which is supposed to be a personal thing) was mainly used as a “justice” tool, which really meant injustice most of the time. Since I used ethics as a public person or at Sterling Mgmt where I was an ethics officer and Dir. I & R, my intention was to actually get a product of someone feeling better and producing more. I consulted their desires, not what I wanted them to do or not do.

      • You kept it up at the top of the DECI scale.

        Usually it is all the way down in the enforce band when someone is “assigned” a lower condition.

      • I have seen many gross injustices and bad ethics handlings over my 30+ years in Scientology. Most of them are related to being connected to the Sea Org and the kind of harsh ethics they seem to love. Then you have bad handlings from the Class V Orgs who are semi connected to the Sea Org via management.
        The other thing I see a lot is people not understanding the conditions. I studied them and applied them for years. I never forced a person to do a condition.
        My recommendation is for someone who doesn’t like them not to use them, which sort of happens anyways. 🙂
        But to try to tell someone who has used them successfully that they don’t work is also futile. I’m not saying that you are doing this Oracle. I agree with you too that LRH’s enemies are not mine. I think LRH was chasing some of his own demons and some of it crept into his writings.

      • I use them too Tony. I do not mean to imply the ethics formula do not work. I do not mean to suggest people are not in enemy conditions, liability conditions, treason conditions, doubt conditions. This exists and is self evident. I only mean to bring about a higher understanding of what this tool can do and how it can be used in a better way.

      • Cool Oracle.
        I think you have a high understanding about what you did with and in Scientology and I appreciate you sharing your wisdom. I commented above about your information about magic and Scientology. I really enjoyed that.

    • Tony, great post. Exactly what I said in reply to T.O above: These formulas have to be done intelligently. They are just little concise arrows, indicating a significant and ethical journey can be undertaken. But one has to walk the walk HIMSELF! No orders and punishments.
      Ethics – a personal thing. As you demonstrate so nicely, one has to integrate these formulas with life, and do it with wisdom, and common sense, and….
      creativity. Unless one wishes to be and stay an easy going robot. Was it Picasso who said: Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist. ?
      2 short stories, on 2 ways of applying conditions. The wise /intelligent way as you describe here and the rote moron way.
      Tony, I did Repairing Past Ethics Conditions too, Years ago, twice on a certain dynamic which was a ruin in my life, never getting anywhere.
      1st when I was fairly new to the whole subject. It was nice – not more.
      2nd time, years later, after I was clear, I did it with a wise friend, outside any org. She mostly shut up, and let me do the work. As we advanced I found
      myself handling a few totally destructive low conditions from distant past life, and I had the most remarkable wins and cognitions of my life, parallel to any auditing
      I ever done. I walked on air for weeks, the ruined dynamic got totally rehabilitated WHITHIN DAYS of completing the action and achieving the EP.
      It was too good to believe. Huge charge was released, huge, but most importantly, deep NDERSTANDING was reached as to how with lack of knowledge
      of the rules of this universe, powerful beings can come to total ruin. I SAW THIS WITH MY OWN EYES. And how using knowledge correctly can save save sooo much trouble and ruined lives.

      Some years later, ironically, at Ron’s St. hill AO, long, cruel, conditions cycle, abusive, enforced, invalidative and plain stupid, managed to drive me all the way
      from the top to the bottom! And stay there STABLY…Ha ha now. Than, very sad! It was so bad that it even managed to wipe out all the benefits
      from the previous fantastic action.

      And as I was falling rapidly down, I met this guy there, fairly new staff member, who told me he could not do conditions. He tried it for a whole year with practically everyone. No good. I said: can I try? He said sure. We got permission to go ahead, as everyone was in apathy about him. He was a great guy, but lacking in education.
      After no more than 20 minutes with him, I found out he totally misunderstood what all this action was about. “How can formulas, which are what kids study in Math
      lessons have anything to do with his life?” He couldn’t get it. And nobody’s seen this about him. How rote can you be?
      So we sat down under a tree, and using many examples and stories, with patience and fun, managed in a short time to get him to see how formulas can be a part of and applied to life.
      That was all. He started to do the conditions nicely with wins, and wrote me incredible commendations. And everybody were amazed. “Hemi, What did you do???” Was difficult to explain that I did nothing but clear a concept which was misunderstood. And the fatal irony was that at that very time, I was abused viciously and stabbed badly by…wrong conditions.
      Why did I mention these 2 stories? Because IMHO, this is what is wrong with Scientology. Application. And may be one more thing: Application! Quality of.

      • Nice story Hemi.
        If someone knocked you down then you must know you can get back that high again. 🙂

        As an Ethics officer I also remember that the purpose of ethics is to get the tech in.

        Some people try to handle everything with ethics.

        Auditing well done can help a person “find out who they really are” and knock out a lot of strange stuff. I have found that some things handle with ethics and some don’t. The reason I say this is that RPEC may handle some stuff and might not handle other stuff. If you like auditing, you could find an indie auditor and do some.

        You also sound like you are a great ethics terminal, maybe you could help people with ethics?
        I have also found that words play a big barrier in applying ethics. Some people get keyed in by some words and stick on them and won’t get the intended concept. The handling you did sounds awesome.

  10. I see the ethics formulas as a system of enforcing loyalty to the scientology movement.Once you attack, harm or suppress the other party, it becomes difficult for you to re-approach them with open heart and hands. You are now “one of us” to a bigger degree.

    The doubt formula is also a binary which is forwarded by the creator of The Infinite-valued-logic Theory. Contradiction?

    If granting of beingness is the biggest human virtue, total ARC understanding and if the end product of the bridge is Cause over Life – why do scientologist actively seek to attack,suppress and harm others with who they cannot agree.

    Good comments by all.

    • “Once you attack, harm or suppress the other party, it becomes difficult for you to re-approach them with open heart and hands.”

      True that. It is building walls not bridges. One of the rules to happiness is to not create effects on others that you are not willing to experience yourself.

      Do you want to be harmed attacked and suppressed? Do you want to receive an “effective blow” from which you can not recover?

  11. Some thoughts on this topic…

    First, the condition of Doubt is a Lower Condition. Now, I know this formula can be applied at anytime, nevertheless it remains in the Lower Condition band.

    In general, Doubt is considered to be a bad thing by Scnists. I do not share this viewpoint. Sometimes, doubt gives one pause; a moment to consider circumstance and action. This is not a bad thing. Since doubt is discouraged, it enforces a decision on the individual and often gives the pretence of “certainty”. The appearance is that the Doubt formula has the person critically inspect and analyse something, however, in actual practice this rarely occurs. It is uncomfortable and unpopular to be “in doubt” – especially about Scn or the group, and all one wants to do is get “out of doubt” as quickly as possible.

    Second, the design of the formula has a polarizing effect, and enforces a Us vs Them, This or That, black and white two-value logic, which rarely applies (or works) in real-life scenarios.

    Third, I’ve always found the attack, harm, suppress help selection to be too limiting. Many times I just wanted to do “nothing.” But that’s not really an option when sitting in front of an MAA. So, it can force you to do things that you would not normally do; and can result in the individual unwillingly or unwittingly adopting a valance.

  12. Excellent article, Oracle:

    I was watching Kenneth Branaugh’s movie version of Hamlet last week, and I perked up when I heard this line:

    “There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio
    Than are dreamt of in our philosophy”

    It’s one of my favorite lines from all of Shakespeare, but I’d always remembered it as:

    “There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio
    Than are dreamt of in YOUR philosophy”

    “OUR philosophy” is MUCH different!

    And so I researched it and found that the “first folio”, the version published by Shakespeare’s friends from his acting company after he died, had written OUR philosophy and later versions wrote YOUR philosophy.

    I saw that OUR philosophy is a comment on human knowledge itself, and not a centuries old make-wrong of someone else’s religion.

    And so “Attack Harm Suppress, or Help” is such an odd and inadequate list of choices. Surely, as you point out, there are MANY more choices for any course of action than these.

    I understand that Hubbard was never your “item”.

    But it is precisely things like this, things he embedded deeply into Scientology for Scientologists to dramatize over and over as they do conditions, that I believe show Hubbard was at least extremely irresponsible.

    I realize that you do not blame Hubbard for this, that you retain your own total responsibility for everything Hubbard himself wrote.

    But I very much agree with Old Timer on this one, when he writes:

    “I see the ethics formulas as a system of enforcing loyalty to the scientology movement.Once you attack, harm or suppress the other party, it becomes difficult for you to re-approach them with open heart and hands. You are now “one of us” to a bigger degree.

    The doubt formula is also a binary which is forwarded by the creator of The Infinite-valued-logic Theory. Contradiction?

    If granting of beingness is the biggest human virtue, total ARC understanding and if the end product of the bridge is Cause over Life – why do scientologist actively seek to attack,suppress and harm others with who they cannot agree.”

    I think Old Timer’s analysis of Scientology is extremely insightful, and results in a freer, wiser, and more expanded individual after having gone through it. I think it “Spots Source”, which is necessary for a full recovery from anything.

    So I believe that spotting source is not “low-toned” or “irresponsible”, nor was it ever an invitation for anyone to have less ARC for themselves.

    I really like your analysis of the doubt formula, too. Your pointing this out leads people to a greater list of choices after Scientology.

    There ARE more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in Hubbard’s philosophy.

    It’s good to see that you and I do agree on that.


    • Well said Alanzo! We also agree to disagree! That is a good thing too! Laughter! Kind of funny how our fights never cause my ARC for you to be reduced. 🙂

      • I’ve got a most ethical friend, still “in”. Yet, every time anything doesn’t work out in her life or goes wrong or a problem arises, she says she must look for her ‘out-ethics’. It’s what’s been pumped into her head and she’s bought it.
        I told her that I have a totally different approach. When I’ve made a mistake, I laugh at myself – out loud, even when I’m alone. I fix it and move on. I don’t worry about being PTS or looking for an SP. I don’t apply conditions. I move on.
        It’s most workable. I’ve tried to tell her that it’s not necessary to put herself down all the time. I tell her to be kind to herself. “Don’t beat yourself up all the time! Shit happens!”
        It’s so deeply imprinted in her mind that everything is her fault all the time, that it’s her own unethical behaviour SOMEwhere along the line….. it’ll take some time, if ever, before she can adopt a light hearted attitude to screwing up. It becomes so SERIOUS.
        I prefer to see the funny side.

      • You speak of the constant BLAME. All the way down the end of the tone scale.

        What did you to pull it in?
        What are your out ethics?
        You are responsible for everything!
        Are you being cause or effect?
        You have overts!
        You have with holds!
        You must be PTS!
        You are out ethics!
        You are in a lower condition!
        You need a sec check!
        Why are you pulling this in?
        You need to make it go right!
        You are down stat!

        It is all SO LOW TONED BLAME. Ser facs. It dribbles down from the Sea Org.

        When I got involved with Scientology none of this was going on, I kid you not. The place was VERY uptone happy and lots of fun!

      • aprilfool, It has gotten so bad Scientologists pretty much ser fac on themselves 24/7. Most of the abuse is self imposed. And if you stand up for yourself or speak out against the abuse or ser facs, someone will always pipe up with the ultimate ser fac: “You are railing against ethics and justice”.

    • Alanzo and Old Timer agree: “I see the ethics formulas as a system of enforcing loyalty to the scientology movement”.
      I beg to differ. It is rather: I see the MISAPPLICATION OF ethics formulas as a system of enforcing loyalty to the scientology movement”. Doing the doubt formula properly enforces TRUTH, because it orders you to observe and find out the truth of things. If instead, one chickens and hides and looks at lies and false data, that’s not doubt formula but the opposite. Elementary. Hell, most people that left the Scientology movement, did it by just that very formula. Hundreds of detailed, well written Doubt formulas were published, with their creators mostly feeling amazingly free and happy, and the CoS wishing they never done that damn formula… I did too…it was great action, cleansed my soul.
      When I said to St. Hill senior Chaplain that I wished to do Doubt on CoS management versus the Indies, he got really nervous and wouldn’t have anything to do with it. Why? Because it enforces loyalty to the scientology movement? Hell no! Because this formula done right, without bias or rumor, is a bitch for anyone hiding things or suppressing others. How is a formula ordering one INFORM HONESTLY AND EXAMINE both sides – enforcing one sided decision? Only by not letting one do it properly. For any dictator, enclosing people and shutting off information, that formula is a real bitch and very dangerous.

      • Hi Hemi.

        If you applied the formula, left the church and joined the Indies you are still a scientologist.

        “I see the ethics formulas as a system of enforcing loyalty to the scientology movement”.

        Are the Indies not a movement?

        Had you said that you applied the formula and left to join the Hara Krishnas, Mormons or circus, my statement would then be incorrect for you.

  13. Cool article. Two things come to mind, first, 99% of the times I “applied” the conditions formulas it was under duress. My stats would be down and I would be ordered to fly to LA to endure a fun-filled weekend of invalidation and evaluation at the PAC Base, or the HGB Building, or CLO . The intent being that I would “cognite” that I was a piece of out-ethics pond scum and become aware that I was actually in Treason to the group.
    Well, let me back track, FIRST I would be required to write up overts, Even if I could not come up with any really juicy commissions of real crimes, one could always (and was encouraged to) come up with a LONG list of omissions, all of the things you should have done on post, but didn’t, because you were in the valence of some suppressive THEN I was supposed to cognite I was in Treason, then do the condition. I found that acting contrite was a VERY important step in the conditions formulas, though it was some how left out of the Ethics Book (maybe Little Davey will discover that Glaring Omission some day? One can only hope…).
    The last step of the Doubt formula calls for one to actually make the stats go up in the “group” you’ve joined or remained in. But since I was in LA and my Mission or Org was in Seattle this was difficult. So, I was required to write down something I WILL do when I get back (or if I had money I could donate!) and then do the Liability Formula.
    Again, assuming that I was actually in Liability to my group back home, I would need to go back there and actually DO the formula and have the GROUP sign it, but NOOOO, I was always ordered to stay in LA and have my prison guards er, Seniors approve my formula. What I wrote down for the formulas was always what I planned to do, rather that what I’d actually done.
    Its been quite a while since I ran the gauntlet of psychotic cult seniors and this is bringing it all back…ahhh, the good ole’ days…
    After 15 some-odd years of enduring this I did have one Bright Idea, it would be a pre-packaged Lower Condition Help Disk. It would have on it a Complete OW write up and Lower Conditions, from Treason up to Non-Existence. There would be a lonnnnggg list of pre-written up Overts (with time, place, form and event) and the variables highlighted so you could just plug in a few personal details and viola! Done! You could have the overt of omission of not yelling at your juniors enough, failing to press the public person enough to donate, failing to salute the Great Midget and more… then the Conditions Formulas would also be all written up, along with the “cognitions of what a worthless piece of shit you REALLY are, plus, all of the correct words of contrition. The Lower Condition Disk could be personalized with your details and you’d just pop it in your laptop change a few dates and names of people and you’d be done! Only $199.99!
    Secondly, and more to the point of your original post, when I did “do the lower conditions” specifically Doubt, I was almost always deciding if I wanted to Attack, Harm, Suppress or Help…..ME! There was never any other person or group. It was always some suppressive valence I had gone into, like Ghengis Khan or Napoleon (actually I was called Little Napoleon from time to time and I tried to pose like him for fun, in front of a mirror, but that’s another story).
    So, I’d get to that step and it was like…do I want to attack myself….um….noooo, not really. Do I want to harm myself….um….well,not really harm…you know a little self inflicted pain whilst masturbating can be a LITTLE fun, but really harm, no…. Suppress, no, not much to think about there, no I don’t want to suppress myself….and then the last one was Help…? Well, YEAH! Help sounds great! Yes, I’d like to HELP myself! After the first three choices, which weren’t honestly very appealing, Help sounded awful damned good! And so its funny because now that you point out the fact that the choices were severely limited it never occurred to me…
    By the time I got to the end of the Doubt Formula my intelligence and self determinism had been so squashed that I had stopped evaluating or thinking. I just wanted to appease my captors.
    Thank you, Oracle!

    • Andy, I laughed so hard! Too funny! But you sure were a legend in Scientology! A living legend! You put Scientology in Russia and you didn’t even speak the language! You should have won a Freedom medal! It pains me to hear of how you were tortured. Looking over the ethics book under “Rewards and Penalties”, did you ever notice there ARE NO REWARDS? It is ALL penalties! This is a separate issue. I used to sit down at the end of every week and write commendations for people because it was the ONLY reward. Otherwise, there was just P.L. about not attacking upstats. And the Sea Org had a memory swipe every Thursday at 2:00. So it never mattered how much you contributed the week before. We all probably have so many stories we can tell about ethics cycles in the Church. Really, I did not meet many people that could think with the conditions.

      And I do not mean to imply the ethics formulas are not useful, or that they do not work when applied. But a person should be able to think with it, be aware of conditions, at least be clear, and it should have all been VOLUNTARY otherwise, it IS justice and NOT ethics. And the inner power one needs to deal with forces is not forthcoming.

      The original Sea Org group was an elite group. All were Briefing Course grads, all were clear (except one), all had worked on staff and had a proven record of success on post. Membership was by invitation only and all details were kept secret. These were the people that were trusted with the ethics formulas. I heard from someone that was around then, that the ethics conditions were for clears and above at that time.

      Originally there were five conditions, from non e up. There is a tape by Hubbard from around October 1965 called the five conditions. He added the lower conditions below non e at a low point of his life. A very low point.

      The conditions of non e and above, are at the top of the CEDI scale. It is all done by desire.

      The conditions below non e are all down in the enforce band.

      There are people who operate down in the enforce band but not clears, unless they are pushed back down the CDEI scale. And the lower conditions are usually enforced or assigned.

      Ethics should parallel a person’s case, or non case, just like auditing. Is my view.

      Then there is always plain old common sense. How could someone volunteering and working for free possibly be even a liability?

      • Andy Porter, What is has “devolved” into with the ethics, is that the purpose of the M.A.A. is to SER FAC on you.

        If they are very busy and have a long of customers or staff waiting to be ser faced upon, they will set you up to ser fac on yourself by writing O/W’s.

        This is a cost effective way of making you utterly wrong and making them utterly right. You suffer all of the humiliation expected when you get hit with a nice ser fac. You are set up to humiliate and degrade yourself! BEG then to be “let back in the group”. Walk around with your sorry assed self and BEG forgivemness and acceptance, showing NO personal Integrity! Needing approval from bodies, wanting to be liked and admired ~ totally out code of honor!

      • I can’t be the ONLY person on the planet that has noticed that NO WHERE in the ethics condition does it say, “Write overts and with holds”. No where.

        It says “get honest and straight”. “GET” is a FUTURE doingness. “Get honest and straight” is a PURPOSE. Has nothing to do with wallowing around in your PAST.

      • No, I did not say it is not therapeutic to write your overts and with holds down.

        That is a CONFESSION and has NOTHING to do with ethics.

        Anyone confessing should only be handed back MERCY and forgiveness. NOT punishment and humiliation! That is anti religious and crosses over into the arena of political prisoners and their lot.

      • The Sea Org, who’s stated mission it is to “put ethics in on the planet”, has been running squirrel ethics on it’s staff and public for decades and enforcing it on others that they do too!

    • Andy Porter.
      There was a catastrophic incident in Clearwater in 1995.
      A young beautiful Lisa Mcpherson shortly after attesting CLEAR, took off her clothes and walked naked down Fort Harrison Avenue.
      The story went viral on the Internet because 3 weeks later in Scientology Inc captivity she was dead at 32 years old.
      What has not been revealed a whole lot on the Internet is how she endured
      the mind-bending technology applied to her at the Flag Land Base, under the direct supervision of David Miscavige, which ultimately resulted in her psychotic break and death. The electrifying details of the weeks and weeks and weeks of enforcing O/W write ups and conditions on her leading to her breaking point.
      Here is here final O/W wriite up before she went TYPE III

      • The fact that all of the people connected to this stood around watching another human die and nobody picked up the phone to call 911 for an ambulance is about the biggest red flag this group has ever launched. If that isn’t a red flag I don’t know what is.

    • Andy, you’ve perfectly illustrated the insanity that is Scn management and ethics.

      Lower Condition Help Disk – hahaha! This is too much. Why didn’t I think of that?

      Having spent years on staff and numerous trips to the Athena “Cramming” Line (I’ll let you determine what they are cramming), I can totally relate. One of my realizations after I’d left staff is that I was NEVER in Treason as a staff member, even though I’d done the Treason formula a couple dozen times. Think about it, I showed up for work every day, six, often seven days a week, worked from 9am to 11 or 12pm, never took a vacation, got thousands of people into Scn, went into personal debt for the privilege, all for about $35 dollars a week. How could I possibly be in TREASON??? I would have had to burn down the org to be in Treason!

  14. Incidentally, the first three choices attack, harm, suppress are actually just one choice diametrically opposed to the last, help. Yes, you can nitpick over the definitions, but the first three boil down to the same purpose and the reverse of help. So by even agreeing to enter into this framework you have lumbered yourself with destructive purposes, and it ultimately is a binary fork of kill/grow. Very black and white.

    • On some level it is valence and purpose splitting. And it is overseen by people who have no idea what they are doing to other people, and it is done recklessly and rottenly.

      And the product you get is what you see the Sea Org today, the most out ethics group of Scientologists on the planet. When you elect someone else to think for you, you shift yourself as a being right into non existence.

      • I should have said, “And the product you get is what you see the Sea Org today, the most out ethics and OUT OF VALENCE group of Scientologists on the planet”.

      • Processing Hubbard developed after staff were running lowers on one another with heavy ethics for a few years.

      • The original lower conditions were much more violent. The original Treason formula was shorter-lived, and included: “1. Deliver a paralyzing blow to the enemies of the group one has worked against and betrayed. 2. Perform a self-damaging act that furthers the purposes and or objectives of the group one has betrayed.” This Formula was abandoned a year later. I was able to find them some place else on the net and post them on Marty’s blog once, but that web site is missing now. I found these references:



        It appears to me the LX’s were developed to clean up the effects of the heavy ethics period.

        In case you have not noticed, the Super Power ethics repair list that was posted on several links around the Internet, has vanished from the links I looked for.

        I suggest if you can find a copy to get one for yourself.

        This is what Hubbard mocked up to clean everyone up after the heavy ethics of the List One RSer witch hunt / mass exodus / staff massacre.

    • See HCOB 9 August 1969 LX1 Conditions. (Find out about what the LX lists are. I had them, great auditing! Been suppressed out of existence under Miscavige.)
      Non confidential, in the tech vols. Page 432 in my vol 6.

      Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex
      Class VIII

      LX1 (Conditions)

      (Formerly issued to Class VIII auditors
      as a research list on 5 October 1968)
      Used after LX3 and LX2
      3 way Recall
      3 way Engrams (Refer HCO B 2 Aug 1969, “ ‘LX’ Lists”)
      Pc Name ___________________
      Assessment for largest read.
      Overwhelmed ___________
      Made Wrong ___________
      Forced ___________
      Frightened ___________
      Suppressed ___________
      Crushed ___________
      Oppressed ___________
      Denied ___________
      Overpowered ___________
      Overthrown ___________
      Defeated ___________
      Destroyed ___________
      Vanquished ___________
      Wiped Out ___________
      Annihilated ___________
      Changed ___________
      Identified ___________
      Recognized ___________
      Driven Out ___________
      Driven Away ___________
      Grief ___________
      Loss ___________

      • Super Power should be free of charge, then. At least the repair parts needed to clean up what was caused by Hubbard’s dastardness, anyway. It could have been part of his Liability Formula – to make up the damage.

      • Super Power was first meant for the staff, then the public and then governments. The staff are being excluded now.
        It’s the staff and/or abused ex-staff who should benefit from this set of processes. They never will, of course.

  15. My experience is when you are made to do the conditions to fit in with the group, especially an out ethics group as it exists now and for quite a while, I dont think the conditions formulas work. They are used to control and to bring about submission, which is not what they were designed to do. However when done as they relate to yourself and your dynamics, they are amazing, ow writeups etc really work, they did for me anyway! In fact I would recommend them and ow writeups to those who cant let the hatred for Scientology go, to figure out what you felt you violated, on YOUR moral code that you did or didnt do while in involved with the church.

    Most of us on this blog and other blogs have basically done the doubt formula to decide about Scientology, first the church, some have then gone on to apply it to LRH, I have heard the arguments but I still dont get it.

    It is just another of LRHs techs, designed to clarify and free, then used to suppress and enslave.

    • Hi 4a,
      I agree that getting off overts can help a person.
      I really think a lot of the tech works well if applied with good intentions. I would stay very far away from the corporate church which is really like a cult to me now.
      If you tried to help a person with almost anything and let them decide if they liked it or not, and walk away if they weren’t winning, then I think you would have very little trouble.
      Almost all of the trouble I see is when the group ( Sea Org) gets involved and are trying to get “stats up” and “GI up”. Somehow the crazies who care more about stats and cash then they do for people’s well being start running the show and you have people getting chopped up left and right.

  16. Dear Oracle,

    Here is the definition of “whether” :

    “Whether is used in reported clauses and conditional clauses.

    1. used in reported clauses

    You can use a clause beginning with whether after a reporting verb such as know, ask, or wonder. You use whether when you are mentioning two or more alternatives. You put whether in front of the first alternative, and or in front of the second one.

    I don’t know whether he’s in or out. I was asked whether I wanted to stay at a hotel or at his home.” Fairflex Online dic.

    And these ones :

    “wheth·er (hw r, w -) conj. 1. Used in indirect questions to introduce one alternative: We should find out whether the museum is open. See Usage Notes at doubt, if. 2. Used to introduce alternative possibilities: Whether she wins or whether she loses, this is her last tournament. 3. Either: He passed the test, whether by skill or luck.” Fairflex Online Dic.

    Look at def #2 above : “used to introduce alternative possibilities”.

    Now “alternative” on Merriam Wenster online :

    “Main Entry: 1 al·ter·na·tive Pronunciation: \ol-ˈtər-nə-tiv, al-\Function: adjective Date: 1540 1 : ALTERNATE 1 2 : offering or expressing a choice “.

    Now, let’s look at “possibilities”

    pos·si·bil·i·ty /ˌpäsəˈbilətē/

    “noun plural noun: possibilities a thing that may happen or be the case. “the theoretical possibility of a chain reaction” synonyms: chance, likelihood, probability, hope; More the state or fact of being likely or possible; likelihood. “there was no possibility of recompense for him” synonyms: feasibility, practicability, chances, odds, probability “they discussed the possibility of launching a new project” a thing that may be chosen or done out of several possible alternatives. “one possibility is to allow all firms to participate” synonyms: option, alternative, choice, course of action, solution “buying a smaller house is one possibility”

    Now, let’s look again at step 3 of Doubt :

    “Decide on the basis of “the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics” whether or not it should be attacked, harmed or suppressed or helped. ”

    Now, if carefully clear ALL WORDS of the above sentence you’ll be able to really that those are only possibilities. You can decide :

    1. Suppress
    2. Harm
    3. Suppress part of it and help part of it
    4. Help
    5. Help a lot, suppress a little part of it
    6. None of the above, do nothing at all.

    You are asked to decide “whether or not” , if you decide “I will just do nothing for right now” , it still fits under “whether or not” , you decided that you “will not attack or suppress and neither will help”.

    It all depends on the circunstances and has to be INDIVIDUALLY evaluated case by case. Ethics if FOR THE INDIVIDUAL.

    You can live near a psychiatric clinic and are on Doubt whether you should move or not to live someplace else. On that step you can decide “not to help it” ( the clinic) but can decide too, to not suppressed as you may lack enough data on THAT specific clinic and what they actually do. But you may want to stay away from it just in case.

    You can be married to real asshole who is very out-ethics and nothing you do fix him up. But he used to be a great individual before. You decide to dump him and not pay any att to him (not help it) till he changes his mind but you might not want to harm it either.

    You are working for a company and your boss is being very irresponsible with with you ; not paying you on time, forgetting to supply you the materials you need to do your hat, etc. He used to be your friend but now is having an out-2D and it is heavily affecting his performance at work. You tried to help him on many ocassions to no result. You do Doubt and decide you should not help him (by continuing working for him) as your finances are rock bottom and that you should look for another job where you can flourish and prosper. But you don’t want to harm him or suppress him either as he is only being stupid but is not a evil person. So you just leave and that’s that.

    I can continue, but I am sure you get the point. On step 1 and 2 you already examined the real intentions and activities of such group, person or proyect, and the actual statistics. Then you are ready for your decision that step 3 calls for which can be ANY.

    Any other interpretation of this step 3 is “non-Standard” and only shows M/us on it and False Data. That the Church have done it that way you describe doesn’t mean it is ok and standard, it isn’t. It is not LRH that is at fault ; it is us humans applying “justice” to others. Justice can’t be trusted to Man, Homo Sapiens or Homo Novis equally.

    You want to avoid falling into that trap ? There is one defence against it : DO THE RIGHT THING ALWAYS.

    Don’t expect others to come and handle your ethics for you. Do it yourself. BE RIGHT, do what you are supposed to do, keep your noses clean, keep your Code Of Honor IN. Don’t assign Cause to any other entity but only to YOURSELF. Don’t be weak, be strong. Have Honor and Integrity. That’s the ONLY way out. I am NEVER, EVER the effect of no one. I respect myself enough to not fall into that game. I don’t care really what are or were the circunstances. Just never be an unwilling effect. Respect yourself, fight the opposition with courage and determinism and
    self-respect. All a complaint is, is the arbitrary election of Cause.

    When any one complains, only this is happening :

    “No Beingness : is an acceptance of control by the environment and abdication even of control of self” LRH.

    It is not “The Church ” . It is not “COB RTC”. It is only YOU , as hard as it sound and as tough a bullet it is to bite. When everybody in the Filed realizes about this, the solutions will present themselves.

    I hopes this clarifies any confusions about it.


    • You’re welcome! Feeling so great today that people in Seattle, Los Angeles, Las Vegas and other parts of the U.S. are sharing their voice with people in South Africa!

      • I like “getting back in comm” as a purpose. And I think when we have these talks it reminds us of the good things we can carry forward with us.

      • However, I will tell you why I think every blog, every forum, and every group diversified is essential. If we were all in the same place at the same time, we would be more vulnerable to these attacks from DM.

        Right now we are spread out all over the place in union groups. Do you know how impossible it is to focus on eliminating all of this? It is unattainable goal now.

        How to wipe out every Indie group from Ron’s Org in Russia to the Underground Scientology Movement spread across the U.S,? How to wipe out every blog in every country across the planet and every page across Face Book. It is an unattainable goal.

        And, all the while people ARE getting back in comm.

        This is truly a moment in history when “every action counts”!

      • So you see, everyone is to everyone else’s BENEFIT. There is no good reason for any of us out here to be harming attacking and suppressing others, overtly or covertly. It is to our benefit to not be unmocking anyone!


      • No longer can David send the F.B.I. in to close field practices!
        No longer can O.S.A. stalk harm attack and suppress Scientologists from practicing their own religion!
        No longer can people be blown off the bridge with the printing of a golden rod!
        No longer do auditors have to be stopped from delivering!
        No longer do people have to be separated from their family and friends in order to continue their studies!
        No longer do we carry the burden of shunning our fellow man!
        No longer do we have to sneak in closets to deliver an auditing session!
        No longer do we face an empty night alone with out someone to reach out to!
        No longer are you expected to turn your back on your fellow man!
        No longer must you sit in fear of soldiers in uniforms coming to your town!
        No longer must you face domestic terrorism because of the sound of your voice!
        No longer must some endure “can’t have Scientology” run on them!
        No longer must we endure “can’t have friends” run on us!
        No longer, no longer, no longer the thirty years of misery when that man had power over our comm lines and our civil rights!

        The ~ War ~ Is ~ Over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  17. See there, we got all connected up here just in the nick of time. David Miscavige reportedly Has managed to shut down Mike Rinder’s Blog today:

    ****** BEGIN QUOTATION ********

    You may have been having difficulty logging onto my blog today.

    According to the Web Hosting company I use, they are under DOS attack and are working to deal with it. They host many more sites than mine, though I doubt they have any site that would engender a DOS attack by random hackers. Seems the blog is creating headaches for the church… Hopefully the web host can sort this out quickly.

    This would not be the first time the church has attempted to shut down a source of information that displeases them and of course, their zeal to protect their vested interests will not be hampered by either cost or legality.

    Apparently the blog may be intermittently accessible for the time being.

    It’s nice to know you are hitting the targets you are aiming at.

    ****** END QUOTATION ********

    Another incident of enemy purposes. Talk more, love more, share more, care more.

    Only love can conquer hate.

    • I guess Mike missed some with holds. From Mike’s last interview:

      “Now he writes about Scientology at his own website, and his long involvement in the organization ensures him a steady stream of insider accounts of what’s happening in the church.

      And none seemed bigger than the reports he’s been getting over the last few days regarding some sudden changes in LA. We’ve also been receiving reports, and we thought it would be a good idea to talk with Rinder and try to break down what’s happened in a way that is not only comprehensible to longtime Scientologists.

      Here was our exchange…

      THE BUNKER: Mike, over the last couple of days at your blog, you’ve been reporting some pretty interesting changes that were announced at Scientology’s headquarters in Los Angeles. We want to make sure a general audience can get a grasp on what has happened.

      Let’s get some terms down. The “Big Blue” complex in Los Angeles — known overall as “PAC Base” for Pacific Area Command — is actually made up of several different units. There’s a regular “Class V org” known as LA Org, which went “Ideal” some years ago. This is the kind of “Ideal Org” that you find in other cities — such as Portland, Phoenix, and the Twin Cities.

      But PAC also has more high-level entities. The American Saint Hill Organization (ASHO) is run by the Sea Org and is supposed to deliver the vaunted “Saint Hill Special Briefing Course” which was an important step to “going Clear.” And then there’s the Advanced Org (AOLA), another entity run by Sea Org workers, where wealthy Scientoloigists pay the big bucks for the Operating Thetan levels, at least the ones they can do before they have to go to Clearwater, Florida and then the cruise ship Freewinds for the really top secret stuff. And recently, the entire complex was undergoing an upgrade to become the “Ideal Pacifica Bridge.” What else should we know before the changes happened?

      MIKE RINDER: The important thing to know is that LA Org and ASHO have been struggling to keep their lights on. As the campaign to upgrade things to the Ideal Pacifica Bridge was stumbling on, it was becoming apparent to anyone that the place was in trouble. Something drastic had to change. Miscavige knew that after the big announcement of the “Ideal PAC” there are too many people in LA seeing the place increasingly resemble a morgue.

      THE BUNKER: So Miscavige has made a dramatic move, seemingly out of nohwere?

      MIKE: A message had to be sent. He dismissed the Commanding Officers of AOLA and ASHO and had them sent to Flag (the complex in Clearwater, Florida) to get them out of sight. No doubt they’ll be pulling weeds at the Hacienda, the apartment complex where Miscavige himself has an apartment that he uses when he’s in town.

      But he’s also moved in 230 Sea Org workers to take over LA Org, the “Ideal Org” which was formerly run by non-Sea Org staff.

      So now all three entities — AOLA, ASHO, and LA Org, are “Sea Org Orgs.”

      Also, ASHO and LA Org used to be on split schedules, known in Scientology parlance as “Day” for the day crew, and “Foundation” for the night crew. While replacing the workers at both places, Miscavige has got rid of the double-shift setup, so now only one long shift will run each of those places.

      THE BUNKER: Where did all of these new Sea Org workers come from? And do we know the names of any of the new commanders?

      MIKE: FSO — the Flag Service Organization, which runs the Clearwater complex in Florida — is way overstaffed for the small trickle of people arriving there for services. It wasn’t hard for Miscavige to round up 230 people and ship them to Los Angeles. So far, I’ve heard a few names of who’s running things. The commanding officer of ASHO is now Sandra Colon. The new LA Org commander is Heather Wolfe. And they report to a new PAC commanding officer, Jason Hemphill.

      THE BUNKER: What about the non-Sea Org staff members who were on 2.5- or 5-year contracts who were running LA Org. Where will they end up?

      MIKE: I’m hearing that some of them will get jobs at the “Hollywood Life Improvement Center” — the old Hollywood Test Center on Hollywood Boulevard about a block from Hollywood & Highland, which has never opened up after its renovation.

      THE BUNKER: So Miscavige is firing a lot of people at a couple of LA entities that were failing, and he’s replaced them with hand-picked people from Florida. And he’s combining shifts — all of which looks like proof positive that Scientology is dying right in the heart of Los Angeles, one of its supposed world strongholds.

      MIKE: Behind the scenes he’ll be telling people that this is the way to take charge and make things work. I’m hearing that he’s even telling people to say that LA Org is now “Saint Hill Size.”

      THE BUNKER: Wait a minute. You mean, instead of admitting that he’s dealing with a dying organization, he’s saying the opposite — that LA Org has suddenly zoomed with expansion to reach that mythical yardstick, that it’s booming as much as L. Ron Hubbard’s home in England, Saint Hill Manor, back in the roaring 1960s? Do you think anyone will believe him?

      MIKE: Here’s the really big problem he faces in Los Angeles. In other cities, say in Portland, a local person can see with their own eyes that no one is coming into the “Ideal Org” there. But they always assume that Scientology is booming in other places, and it’s only their org that is underperforming. But in Los Angeles, that doesn’t work. People at AOLA can see that ASHO is empty. People at ASHO can see that LA Org is empty, and the publics in the area aren’t stupid — they see that PAC is a ghost town. So Miscavige has a real problem on his hands. So he does what he always does. He tells people to stop believing their lying eyes.”

    • Shutting Mike down is “harm attack and suppress” in motion! More, “divide and conquer!” This is what I am talking about.

    • Oh this is stunning, Oracle! It’s added to my day.
      I’ve got the Quincy Jones version – a great rendition, mind you.
      Everlasting music, everlasting pleasure…..

  18. Oracle you bring a lot of the fun back that I used to get in the earlier days of Scientology. Thanks.
    I always liked the wild and crazy people of Scientology, but the ones that were sane and had integrity too.
    It’s funny how some very sane people can be wild and crazy and some very down tone people can be wild and crazy and that is all they are. They destroy things and pretend to be uptone and creative but are just masking their desire to destroy things.

  19. Oracle youre a real tour de force as they say, a bonified guru! I hope this tickles cause despite your great sense of humour or cheeky flippancy, I see a person whose passion to help reach out through these volumous words! Nice one. If you can entertain as you teach why not? Works like a charm, I personally love it! Its very interesting to follow
    your reasoning cause you lay it all out on paper..digitally of course! Thus us readers come to know you and how thine mind ticks and ticks and ticks and sometimes purrs! Again cheers for that! Dont stop, we want more 🙂 No pressure then 😉
    Back to the whole ethics and conditions debate. In my mind if one was allowed to assume the viewpoint of true self and apply ethics and conditions from this perspective only, none of the shit wouldve hit the fan! When forced to do the conditions out valence and still misapply them thereafter, you get people into volcanically hot water. If what I say here has been said earlier in slightly different words, it needs reaffirmation.

    Most of us ex church bunnies were forced to apply ethics conditions in front of an ethics officer/MMA terminal who failed to ensure that we were operating from our own viewpoint – Not the churches according to Dave’s viewpoint (Heil Hitler). The greatest good for that individual from his own unique viewpoint was suppressed and all for the church and nothing for self bred nothing but fanatism.

    You have to be an extremist nut to deny yourself pleasure, sleep and good family right?

    • Amen! Self denial isn’t the way! Self abnegation isn’t the way! The group is all and the individual is nothing, isn’t the way!

      High ARC, Granting beingness, fourishing and prospering, happiness….this is the way!

      • Ja bru(yes bro), we are the bane of the Scn sheeple and its pygmy sheppard!

        May our comm grow ever louder and mightier. Us wolves of truth howl for Davies blood and rightly so, what hes done needs justice! To think what couldve been done if we hadnt had to contend with his infernal interference!!

      • Hey Vinay. You know, I only see a huge amount of your holding on to baggage, connected to “Hubbard”. (and others too, btw!) What about practicing some of your “Mindfulness”, in relationship to him/them? Just let it go man! I assure you, you can spend that effort in ways that leave you feeling muuuuch better!

        From being a frequent visitor to Geir isene’s blog, I see he has tried to make THIS point with you repeatedly, without success:

        So … one more time, Vinay, … can you EVER just L-E-T I-T G-O???

        Well, CAN you, Vinay??

        Sincerely, — Calvin.

  20. For the explorers and pioneers.

    It’s harder and harder to find places that haven’t been explored, but it’s also become easier to forget places that we’ve already been.

  21. Ja bru(yes bro), we are the bane of the Scn sheeple and its pygmy sheppard!

    May our comm grow ever louder and mightier. Us wolves of truth howl for Davies blood and rightly so, what hes done needs justice! To think what couldve been done if we hadnt had to contend with his infernal interference!!

  22. T.O. here’s a real little “feel good” story. It relates to your “item” — HELP!

    I oftentimes take a walk down to our local SPAR supastore, to get daily provisions.

    Regularly, (fated?) I would bump into an elderly retired guy, doing the same. His name is Raymond. We would often chat on the sidewalk, when he would share his very obvious anguish, about our declining social conditions and resulting increasing crime rate.

    Each time, I would acknowledge his originations and shift his attention to our present time environment, while pointing out how those upsetting things, need not weigh him down, if if he handled them right.

    He eventually became curious as to how I “always managed to remain so cheerful” and asked how i do it.

    So here is what I told him:

    “Raymond, about 2 years ago, I had gotten to a point where I was beginning to have thoughts similar to yours. I am a part owner in a massive shareblock storage complex, from which I base my renovation business. Unfortunately, the area has been swamped by increasing gang activity, and of course, this just means that the decent people who lived there, had to move out, for fear of becoming a next victim, or worse, a “statistic!”

    “Shootings, stabbings, attacks with a broken bottle, savage violence upon passers-by, young and old and groping of innocent females and other even more degrading behavior, have become part and parcel of the former orderly neighborhood.”

    “Since moving out, is not an option for me, since I would struggle to find comparable premises. Besides, being chairman of the property, gives me real freedom, in that I have operational control of the complex. So that is a difficult thing to give up, for me.”

    ” The alternative, of course, was to just accept the situation and learn to cope with it.”

    “At that point, I had a HUGE realization! (aged 65)— I discovered that: — I had been taking life FAR TOO SERIOUSLY! — FOR FAR TOO LONG!”

    (Without going into detail, I also mentioned that I had learned a lot about the mind some time back, and also my wife Dorothy had been a successful counselor of prisoners, for over six years (Criminon). Also my own daughter and son-in-law, are both hardened police officers, who have “seen it all” over their careers.)

    “Anyway, Raymond, to cut a long story short, I realized that I needed to “lighten up”, my own life, by ignoring the ‘small stuff’, and silly nit- picking that people engage in, when they live in a less ‘challenging’ environment. Getting surrounded by a drug crazed gang of youths, who are set on gouging your eyes out with a broken bottle, if you don’t hand over your wallet and cell phone, will wake almost ANYBODY up, I can assure you!”

    “Understanding the people you are dealing with, means effectively communicating with them, on their level, and between Dorothy and myself, we set out to do just that.”

    “With a newly found light hearted attitude, I found I could reach these people, because I was able to be comfortable (confront) being with them. Being a mostly fearless person, from my background in powerlifting, and coaching all types of people in my former commercial gym, It became clear that, the only way to have an effect on these guys, was to earn their respect. And over time, by concentrating on the positives, and opportunities they were wasting, gained their respect, for the most part”

    “I also learned that LAUGHTER is a universal language, that everyone can understand, and it is / can be a sure way to lessen tension and let go the seriousness!”

    “It was just a deliberate strategy of course, to take their attention off their grim livelyhood,
    and gain acceptance, while being someone who meant business, if they stepped on our toes.”

    I then saw that Raymond was completely absorbed by my account, so then shifted tack.
    I asked him when he “had last noticed all the beauty and humor in his environment?”

    I ran some quick “havingness ” on him, to which he responded eagerly.

    Raymond: — ” You know Calvin, I had forgotten just how much beauty their is. I just didn’t SEE it anymore! You have woken me up! Thank you, thank you, thank you! I’m going to see the bright side of life and learn to laugh again, after this”

    And with a bright smile, we parted.

    Well, The other day, I saw this familiar figure walking toward me, but the demeanor had changed COMPLETELY! Gone was, the pitiful shuffling form, muttering incoherently, and incessantly, to himself. That was the first day I met the “NEW” Raymond! Bright, bubbling, and full of the joys of life, again!

    His words took me by surprise: “Calvin, i want to sincerely thank you for saving my life.”
    “When I got home the other day, I thought long and hard about what you had told me,.
    “I decided that I’m no longer gong to take life seriously, and I’m going to laugh and find things to be cheerful about, and look at all the beauty, that is actually there, and we don’t take the time to appreciate it.” With that he grabbed me by the hands, and said: “You don’t know, just how much it means to me, to find that I wasn’t living “in the present time”. Now that I’m there, I feel young again! Thank you, thank you, thank you!”

    Off he went with a spring in his step, and his changed outlook has been the same ever since.

    Just shows you what finding TRUTH in your life, can do for “case: hey? 🙂

    – L, Calvin

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