Are you emotional?

By Tony DePhillips

Someone called me “emotional” today and it got me thinking.

Is there anything really wrong with being emotional?

I thought about it for awhile and then thought nothing is really wrong with it so long as your actions aren’t irrational.

In fact being emotional is a good thing as far as I’m concerned. It shows that there is life residing there.

Then I thought, is it really even possible to be “emotionless”? I don’t think so. I think everyone has some emotion that they are in.

This sort of TR0 thing that some Scientologists get into is still an emotion, but one which I have trouble determining. To me it’s close to a “no sympathy”.

And what is this “blinkless” TR0 thing about? Why is that good?

I think getting into this TR0 state and operating from there is detrimental if it has no affinity contained in it.

I think that using affinity is very important to communication and in Scientology it was surgically removed at some point. It became that affinity was weakness. Actually affinity shows strength and those that can’t use affinity are the truly weak people.

I think that the TR’s could be used to train in compassionate confront and have been used this way in the past.

At a certain point I feel the TR’s were being used as a method of training people into a no sympathy beingness.

I think TR0 (actually all of the TR’s) would be better if it was coached with an eye towards increasing the affinity one addresses another with.

I think TR2, where you drill acknowledging a person, could be improved in another way. I think one major reason that auditing helps people is because of the auditor listening and caring with affinity and then duplicating what was said and then acknowledging it properly. I think that TR2 would be much better if the emphasis was improving the ability to LISTEN to the other person. I mean REALLY LISTEN while caring and then acknowledging from there. I would suggest having a person make up a story that took them about five to ten minutes to explain and drill having the auditor listen and not acknowledge until the person was totally done talking about it.

This done with high affinity and patience would create great results.

I think this would be very beneficial to people in life as many people are intolerant and don’t have the ability to really listen and be patient and HEAR what the other person is trying to say.

Which got me onto another train of thought….the Tone Scale.

 

I can see some definite workability with the tone scale of Thetan plus body range. This range goes from enthusiasm at the top to body death at the bottom. I find a lot of the attributes that LRH gives for these tone levels very helpful. Not perfect, but helpful.

 

The tone scale of Thetan without a body range is less real to me.

 

My reason for writing this is to point out some of the things that I found helpful to me that I got from the Scientology philosophy.

 

LRH said in his Logics : “ A datum is as valuable as it has been evaluated.”   This is real to me and I find it interesting to evaluate some of these ideas without fear of censor or punishment. I was unable to discuss/evaluate some of these things while involved with corporate Scientology because the minute I would want to discuss something I would be checked for misunderstood words or false data. For me having to review and look for misunderstood words was a kind of punishment. There also were ethics punishments for “verbal data” and not using references to back up one’s ideas. I found this very restricting and diminished my own self determinism and ability to think with what I was learning.

 

As an example, LRH describes homosexuality as being at 1.1 or covert hostility on the tone scale. This used to be real to me. However, looking further into it and thinking about it since leaving the suppressive environment of corporate Scientology, I have found that homosexuals almost had to be “covert” about themselves back in the day when a person could be destroyed if found out he was a homosexual. So now I don’t see homosexuals as inherently covert and hostile.

 

This is just an example of how being free to evaluate and disagree with things or agree with things that LRH wrote about is therapeutic.

 

Have a nice day.

 

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138 thoughts on “Are you emotional?

  1. Great post Tony! This has been a gray area in Scientology. The tone scale indicates that thetan plus emotion is good. But in the culture emotion has become frowned upon. Even viewed as “reactive”.

    “Love” is truly considered a second rate emotion. “Mercy” is not a word that is used or an concept that is employed.

    Squirrel ethics under David Miscavige has bought domestic abuse such as having people write overts and with holds as part of an ethics formula, (not in any ethics book by Hubbard) and reading those out loud at staff meetings to humiliate and degrade Scientologists. Long term prison and RPF sentences. Heavy punishments for women manifesting or evidencing or potential for “love” such as carrying a child. Wanting to be a spouse. Wanting to spend time with children. Wanting a mate.

    Compassion is alter ised into “sympathy and reasonableness”. Making compassion viewed as a liability.

    You are supposed to forget your friends and family with the printing of a golden rod.

    We have seen his “kingdom” of Scientology at the Int Base where the community has been transformed into his “ideal scene”. Look at the results. Women converted into serial killers by order of abortion. Women converted into soldiers. Women ordered to harm attack suppress degrade and humiliate other women. Women ordered to appear on national television and lie to millions of viewers. He disfigures women. That is what he does.

    David’s purposes to unmock women and alter is them into mean ruthless murdering soldiers lay bare for all to see.

    The power of women in this universe? You can not get into this universe with out traveling through a woman’s thighs.

    We may have to tolerate David’s presence on this planet for another few years but the good news is, after his crimes against women, I don’t think he will be coming back for a very, very long time.

    I certainly do not equate all of Scientology with him. I have met hundreds, thousands of Scientologists that did the tr’s, and did not go into “numb” on the tone scale.

    • Hubbard himself was not exactly “woman friendly”. All of Int execs were men. Women were accepted in men’s uniforms to be part of his group. He wrote a policy exclaiming the dangers of perfume! If that wasn’t a red flag I don’t know what was. He made Manuela wrong in his “leadership” policy for not sleeping with her husband’s enemies to calm them down and use them. “Favors”. He disowned one of his daughters.

      Meanwhile his wife took the hit for him and did prison the time. Only to get fair gamed by David Miscavige in his St. Petersburg Times Interview where he publicly fair gamed her while she was still alive. She became the Church’s “whipping boy”.

      Most of the class Xll’s at the base actually HELPING people were female.

      All of the recruits getting grabbed out of Delphi are there because of their MOTHERS.

      The manner in which David has set himself up to be Hubbard’s heir , like some young lover that usurped traditional inheritance, is very funky in itself. If Hubbard had not been in a secret location that he very specifically hid from David Miscavige during his life so Miscavige had no direct access to him, I would have suspected an affair.

    • My point is this, everything FEMININE has been stamped on hard in the Church.

      Pity, sympathy, empathy, fellow feeling, care, concern, solicitude, sensitivity, warmth, love, tenderness, mercy, leniency, tolerance, kindness, humanity, charity, clemency, compassion, grace, forgiveness, forbearance, quarter, soft-heartedness, tenderheartedness, liberality, indulgence, tolerance, generosity, magnanimity, beneficence, these are traits that emanate from women and define women. They are necessary traits for mankind. Otherwise women would be throwing their children out of windows! This is the glue and the hope and the essential qualities that promise a civilization that will endure. With out these, there can be no dissemination.

      The Church is mysogynist and mysopedic, and dramatizes a morbid hate of women and children.

      That is an ATTITUDE.

      • You know, I did just that, buy perfume once I’d decided I wasn’t a Scientologist anymore.
        .
        I’m delving into interesting “other practices”, too. I’m meditating and find it a tremendous boon to my day. I visualise what I want, what I want to be, etc; and I’m investigating brain trainment.
        .
        So far in the process my mind, body or soul has not been invaded by aliens or bodiless thetans! Lol!
        .
        Hubbard made up stuff saying this was bad or that was bad and so on, to keep us devoted and hooked. Even to keep us fearful….

      • I never wore perfume while in Scn. But later in my research after I left the church, I found out that LRH had allergies and sensitivities to scents One of his aides tells the story of having to wash and rinse his shirts 5 times to get the scent of the laundry soap out of it or he would have her head. That’s when it hit me that the reason he made the edict that no perfumes etc was because he was sensitive to it and he ran his own case on others.

    • Damn. You blew my head back with that one. Powerful stuff O.

      “The power of women in this universe? You can not get into this universe with out traveling through a woman’s thighs.”” ~ Oracle
      That’s gold right there. 🙂

    • While DM may be an extreme example of harshness and lack of compassion, I also recognize that he is a product of the Scn culture. True, he may very well have had pre-existing psychological conditions. But, DM, as a personality type, is not a freakish anomaly in the Sea Org. I’ve met others with similar harshness and brutality.
      In practice, I think Scn does devalue or discourage compassion. The message is that compassion does not really help the individual; instead, you need to be unreasonable with them, raise their level of confront and get their ethics in – that is what is going to turn the person around.
      The whole concept of “finding the person’s too gruesome” pretty much defines the level of compassion of the Ethics Officer.
      The result of all this is the individual becomes mean-spirited.

  2. Fabulous account there, Tony.

    To me, the greatest feeling of real emancipation, results from actually being IN comm!
    And lo & behold, if that doesn’t happen to be when your “NATURAL” TR-O, is IN too?
    And further, also happen to be when your free, uninhibited emotion and ARC, IN as well!

    No surprise, that all this takes place, when one is waaaay UP the Tone Scale, either!

    Ron’s Charts of Human Evaluation & Attitudes lay it all out so succinctly too!

    I’ve used the tone Scale DAILY, since 1972. “EVERYONE” resides there, somewhere! 🙂

    Keep up the flow, bro’!

    — Calvin 🙂

  3. Tony,

    1. I would say when someone calls you or anyone emotional, they do not mean the normal emotions a person expresses.

    When the word emotional is used in that context it means when someone has uncontrolled or and extreme emotions.

    Like they become all emotionally undone under certain circumstances.

    Like break out in crying or anger or other emotion.

    Or like people who “wear their emotions on their sleeve”.

    Another way to describe it is: “irrational emotions”.

    And that is due to psychological damage or abuse.

    It is part of case.

    I am sure a good auditor would clear that out.

    And I don’t get the sense that you are that type of person.

    Especially if you have have had a good amount of good auditing.

    Or the person who said you were emotional, had some significant MUs.

    2. quoting you:

    “Actually affinity shows strength and those that can’t use affinity are the truly weak people.”

    Again, people who don’t have affinity, or can’t express affinity, or are emotionally unavailable are just emotionally damaged or and psychologically damaged people.

    It is part of case.

    It needs to be audited by a competent auditor.

    When I read that kind of stuff from you, it makes me question your understanding of case.

    You in effect, blamed the person for “being that way”.

    A competent scientologist should know all that and not blame the person for having case.

    To blame a person for having case, is about as incompetent as a scientologist, especially an auditor can be.

    It is an overt.

    Dio

      • Dio, even when I was still part of the group one thing I was fully aware of is that the tactic of the meanest spirited was to shove your anchor points in, introvert you, whatever you like to call it. Take you attention off something else worthy of one’s attention and on to yourself, where it shouldn’t oughta be. That’s SOP. A comment such as ‘You’re being emotional’ seeks to achieve that precise introversion. So does your accusing another of committing overts, or being ‘banky’ – it’s an almost unlimited process. It creates a smokescreen for something nasty going on elsewhere. Ask Joburg’s Warren Bruckmann – he’s the master at it.

    • Dio – Definition of emotional:
      relating to a person’s emotions.
      “gaining emotional support from relatives”
      synonyms: spiritual, inner, psychic, psychological, of the heart
      “their emotional needs are often ignored”
      antonyms: material
      arousing or characterized by intense feeling.
      “an emotional speech”
      synonyms: poignant, moving, touching, affecting, powerful, stirring, emotive, heart-rending, heartbreaking, heart-warming, soul-stirring, uplifting, impassioned, dramatic;
      (of a person) having feelings that are easily excited and openly displayed.
      “he was a strongly emotional young man”
      synonyms: passionate, feeling, hot-blooded, warm, ardent, fervent, excitable, temperamental, melodramatic, tempestuous, overcharged, responsive;

      I don’t see “irrational emotions” anywhere. Your reply was mean-spirited in my humble opinion.

      • Tony,

        In regards to the spirit of what I said, your post is nonsense.

        The truth is not determined by authority, by opinions, beliefs nor by who wins an argument.

        The truth is the truth.

        Dio

      • Tony,

        I made a mistake in addressing the following post. I apologize to you. It was supposed to be addressed to Draco, in reply to the definition of emotional he provided for me.

        So here goes again…

        Draco,

        Quoting you: I don’t see “irrational emotions” anywhere. Your reply was mean-spirited in my humble opinion.

        In regards to the spirit of what I said, your post is nonsense.

        The truth is not determined by authority, by opinions, beliefs nor by who wins an argument.

        The truth is the truth.

        Dio

  4. Tony,

    Re: Homosexuality:

    I would tend to agree with you that Hubbard was not correct in his evaluation of homosexuality.

    I have done a fair bit of study of that subject out side the box of scn.

    I have come to the conclusion that we are all a product of a conception and an upbringing.

    We are all only as good as we have been bred and brought up.

    And homosexuality and other types of fuck ups, to the best of my knowledge and understanding, are due to unGodly sexual practices, or entheta sexual practices.

    Sex is a spiritual function.

    Sex is quantum physics.

    Aberrated sexual practices produce aberrees.

    Nothing just happens by chance.

    Everything has a cause.

    The state of mind, emotional state, state of health and all conditons of the sex act at the time of conception determine the type of offspring.

    A couple of sources I read even say that all what happened to the couple and between the couple involved for the previous month or two is also recorded in the new being.

    It could even be more.

    Dio

    • Dio-
      I’m curious as to what else, other than homosexuality, you consider a “fuck up”. I know you scientologists (both in & out of the church) have an aversion to real/hard science, but recently studies are showing that birth order and hormones are more than likely the cause for one to be born gay or straight.
      I really hope you expand on this a little more. I’m greatly offended at the thought that my gay friends (and myself, as I’m bi) are “fuck ups”.

      • Lisa and everyone else who is throwing stones at me,

        Read Leviticus ch 18 in the old testament.

        Dio

      • Dio: I hope that you like eating your pork chops and lobster while wearing your cotton-poly blend, because according to Leviticus, you’ll end up in the same place that I will for sucking dick.

        You are a homophobic bigot. Full stop. And screw your Abrahamic sky fairy.

      • Good comments and article, Tony. In exiting the RCS I have also pondered the tone scale and specifically looked at homosexuality for no other reason that like all things sexual – it is easy to spot tone levels. I let out (rent) some property and in the past few years (quite in addition to other observations) I have had cause to let properties to some gays. I started this process with all the prejudice not just of a scientologist but a natural prejudice as a homo sap. To this day, my greatest insult is to call someone a ‘fag’.
        My initial experiences with letting property to certain homosexuals was to confirm all my prejudices: there was deceit, drugs, the lot, but slowly it dawned on me that all my tenants manifested some degree of these characteristics. Finally, I got in a couple of lesbians and found them to be the very best tenants I’ve ever had.
        The point I’m trying to make is that overall, I don’t think my experience with homosexuals was different from straights – and any perceived differences were as much coloured by my internal prejudice. Even those giving me the worst experiences were not covert about their sexual preferences, but about other financial and integrity-type things. Just like straights.

        Another point is on TRs. Frankly, I epitomise the ‘staring no-affinity eyes’ and I know it freaks people out but I can’t shake it. When dealing with people I try avert my staring blinkless gaze but something kicks in – ‘you’re being weak!’ and my eyes get drawn back. If I could reverse anything I’ve learned in scn it would be this – because I can’t see any upside in a social context to gazing remorselessly into the pits of someone’s eyes. It discomforts them. ‘Being there comfortably’ it is not – I might be comfortable but the other person is not, so how can there really be ARC? I’d like to redo the HQS course for that reason alone and do some unlearning.

      • Loved your post Mavin!
        Maybe you could try to add affinity when looking at people. I mean, more affinity because I’m sure you use some.
        I appreciate your honesty. 🙂

      • Stat,

        “I have done a fair bit of study of that subject out side the box of scn”.

        Reading material for research:

        For starters:

        You can read the bible over a few times from cover to cover, old and new testament.

        Same with the Oahspe bible and the Urantia books.

        Available free on line as ebooks.

        Read the Anastasia books by Vladimir Megre . There are 9 in a series.

        Buy them here:

        http://ringingcedars.com/

        Read this website thoroughly:

        http://learninggnm.com/ and take all the courses. There are at least four levels/ grades.

        Read the Revelatorium over a few times. :

        http://www.revelatorium.com

        With emphasis on chapters 13 to 23 and in particular ch 19.

        When you have done all the above, then maybe we can have a sensible and meaningful dialogical and dialectical discussion.

        >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

        Read what is a dialogical and dialectical discussion:

        http://www.criticalthinking.org/data/pages/31/75b0624ef03956ca540026f3bd0884b85136312571895.pdf

        >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

        Beware of those who have:

        1. read only one book,

        2. only done one religion,

        for they are irrational, mentally imbalanced, zealotic and fanatical .

        You really don’t begin to know anything until you have read several hundred of the right kind of books, and done at least a half a dozen religions and philosophies.

        That is called completing the cycle of learning on a subject.

        Like Shakespeare said:

        Man proud man, dressed in little brief authority, most assured of what you are least aware.

        Hubbard said: if you can only parrot an author, you are not intelligent, you are slightly aberrated.

        Leonardo Da Vinci said the same.

        Dio

    • Dio, how do you explain a child of three to six showing signs of homosexuality?
      .
      I have two such examples in my immediate family. These child were not/ are not exposed to ghastly sexual acts or influences in any way. They hadn’t even formed friendships outside the familiy yet.
      .
      Their parents are the most decent and loving parents with good values and standards.
      .
      Perhaps you don’t understand homosexuality as well as you say you do.

      • Ju,

        You are evidently not qualified to comment on anything.

        You did not even anywhere near duplicate what I said.

        I will briefly re explain:

        All our problems are due to unGodly sexual / breeding practices and unGodly (hedonistic) lifestyle practices.

        Perverted sexual practices and perverted lifestyle practices produce perverts.

        Sometimes you may have to go back a few generations to find the perversion.

        Everything is recorded in genetic memory.

        The sins of the fathers are visited on to the third and fourth generation. (The bible).

        And reread what I first said until you get full understanding.

        And read all the books and items as I said to Stat.

        Dio

      • I must just say, the Bible isn’t a reference for me.
        .
        I also don’t think you can prove your point/s. It’s conjecture.
        .
        Even Hubbard said that a homosexual was inhabited by the thetan entering the wrong body. Why he made such a negative fuss about them then, was because he had quite a heavy case.
        .
        Also, what did he mean? I thought a thetan was asexual. It’s all a guessing game. Some ‘reasons’ are close to the truth, some are not. A bit of this and a bit of that in a pot of theory making each one sound like an authority.
        .
        Obama is putting stuff in the water in the USA to produce more homosexuals in his depraved attempt to add to depopulation.

    • Seriously your answer to me is to read Leviticus? You’re going to have to do a whole heck of a lot better than that. One, not everyone on planet earth believes or follows that religion. Two, I think Espi said it best–those things are also an abomination in gods eyes–so, see you in hell. 😀
      Lastly, it’s the 21st century for #$%*! sake!! Please go re-read the definition of scientific theory. LRH wouldn’t know real research it if bit him in the face. Running his own case on a small circle of friends does *not* count.
      Honestly, I feel sorry for you. You are missing out on knowing some great, interesting people by classifying humans like that.
      Lisa

      • Ju and Lisa,

        Both of your responses to me are pure nonsense.

        Neither of you are qualified to comment on anything.

        Neither of you have anywhere near completed the cycle of learning.

        Both of you have also seriously flunked scientology.

        You two are only intelligent enough to argue to defend your ignorance, incompetence and the right to be that way.

        Love,

        Dio

  5. The Scientology symbol is “Knowledge, Responsibility, Control,” OVER “Affinity, Reality, Communication.”
    .
    LRH routinely used terms such as “homo saps” and “wogs” to denote human beings. Scientologists, so the idea went, were superior to humans, and some Scientologists (depending on their “level”) were superior to other Scientologists.
    .
    And the fellow in the giant picture, with the gold colored frame, was superior to everyone.
    .
    Ego and power trips, and love and compassion, don’t mix well.

    • Hi Boggle. I have a friend who is OT 5 and considers himself superior to me in certain ways, eg, his perceptions are more advanced – he repeats. He’s not denegrading me outright but the implication is there – he’s OT.
      .
      His life is a mess – across his dynamics. I never see him happy or prosperous. It’s been going on for a decade, since I’ve known him. His stories don’t change…. it’s one struggle after the other, one blow after the other… He’s not in the driving seat. But he’s OT. Mmm….
      .
      We both had some issues to address when we first met and it gave us shared reality – in the beginning. I, however, have repaired my stuff and have moved on to flourish and prosper and stably so. I pull in money, have a sense of achievement, sustained happiness and am having a jolly time.
      .
      Of course, he’ll tell you it’s because he needs to get onto OT 7. Then on OT 7, as with so many others I’ve seen, the struggles continue. The Hook of the Scientology.

  6. The idea of someone “wearing their emotions on their sleeve” or even doing things that other people might consider as “mis-emotional” is also an interesting subject.

    I actually like it when a person displays emotion I find it adds a lot of flavor to life.

    Of course too much is usually not that great but who determines what too much is?

    I find that some people have a very low tolerance of emotion and then seek to make others wrong when they express it.

    Beware of the coldly “logical” person. They are usually not much fun to be around and from my experience are usually very down tone. The “logic” they parade around is usually a social veneer covering up deeper problems.

  7. I believe truly getting into communication with someone means to expose your true feelings and emotions with them, otherwise you are just pretending. Sometimes it takes hours to sort things out with someone.

    I have also found that after you take the time and the trouble to handle an upset with someone you have a totally new found respect for them, if they are willing to hold up their side of the communication line.

    Sometimes a person cannot handle what is put onto the comm line and you can’t repair it with them.

    I think a person has to pick and choose who they want to be in communication with.

    Some people are too much work to maintain a high level ARC line with and it’s is just easier to acknowledge that sometimes and move on.

    • Doloras,
      Let’s test whether homosexuality is good or bad for Mankind using the extremis test as follows:
      .
      Let’s have everyone on Earth homosexual. No children. (And artificial insemination won’t work for the whole of planet Earth.) How long would it take for Earth to be de-populated of all human beings? Exactly 130 years.
      .
      On the other side of the extreme – let’s have everyone not homosexual, and run the above test again. And??
      .
      The same test can be applied for thieves, murderers. And guess what? We all place such people in a no-no band. 1.1. They are all covertly hostile, having committed this or that in the past. And auditing a lesbian produced that overt, the recognition – and voila! No more lesbian.
      .
      Hubbard’s coding came about through similar auditing sessions and their results. Hubbard never simply made a statement of belief. It was backed up by research – lot’s of it. And so have I. And they are at 1.1. Scary.
      .
      This modern society that gives criminals more rights (human rights) has simply broadened its net to include gays. That 4th dynamic engram is at work.
      .
      And I have gay friends, and I have been to the island of Lesbia, and approach this issue no different to those in our circle that lie sometimes, or cheat on their tax returns, or flirt with another’s wife. And with the help of the Tome Scale’s tech, I can handle them and when appropriate help them. But if you don’t know and observe that the PC lesbian is at 1.1, your auditing will not produce good results.
      .
      LRH merely assisted us in his ‘codification’ – I don’t believe he was accusatory. He was showing us the approach in to that particular case.

      • LRH research has been empirical and full of assumptions. He had little scientific acumen. His acumen was more of manipulative type.

      • He didn’t research much, Frik. You need to research Hubbard. History of Man came from his own case. He didn’t do other research.
        .
        He was a story teller with a vivid imagination.
        .
        Can’t put a blanket tone level on gays. It’s just not true that they are all 1.1.

      • Hubbard, like you Frik, was homophobic.
        .
        Of course, he’d had terrible things to say about gays. His son was a gay and he drove him away. This son later committed suicide. Or was murdered. The jury is still out on that one.

  8. I believe that TR0 is simply there to teach mindfulness. It is not to be acted out in a literal fashion.

    You are not supposed to go around staring at people without blinking. That will simply scare people in thinking that you are crazy.

    Mindfulness is observing things as they are without using filters.
    .

  9. It’s funny what can stimulate thought and lead to cognitions.

    When Dio above said that I had committed an overt, it made me think of how the cult used to try to tell me what my overts were. Ethics is a personal thing and the idea of others telling you what your overts are is usually a way to try to control/dominate you, not help you. Anyways, that wasn’t an overt for me Dio. 🙂

    The other thing it made me think of was this time I went to a Mark Shreffler Tone Scale seminar which was hilarious. I believe it was Mark who said that an organization can’t rise higher than the tone level of the person who leads it. Or something to that effect. Dm has a very low tone based on how the cult manifests it’s tone level. It squashes people and tries to knock out their ARC. It sucks the finances out of the public and the life out of the staff. It asks all from the person and gives very little back in exchange. I would put dm’s tone level at around hatred. His social tone around cheerful.

    Another thought I had was this idea that going up the Bridge became sort of a status thing for some people. If I am OT7 then I am better than you because you are just Clear or some crap like this. The truth is that I have seen non-Scientologists that appear to be better people than some OT7’s and I have seen some OT7’s that were also very good and able. I have seen everything in between. Getting auditing is for personal benefit. If you aren’t getting personal benefit then it’s really not worth doing in my opinion. I didn’t go up the Bridge to try and use it as some kind of altitude above others. Some people judge success by amount of money in the bank. I don’t. I have seen some rich guys that were real pricks. I have seen some poor guys that were jerks too. So money isn’t really a factor unless it is something you created that brings you some happiness and helps to fulfill you. I am full of flaws. I actually like finding my flaws so I can try to work them out. If you can find flaws in yourself you can also find flaws in organizations and try to do something about them too.

    • I don’t see that Dio indicated you had an overt. On the contrary he even validated you. It’s more like you two are talking about two different things when you are talking “emotion”

      • “When I read that kind of stuff from you, it makes me question your understanding of case.

        You in effect, blamed the person for “being that way”.

        A competent scientologist should know all that and not blame the person for having case.

        To blame a person for having case, is about as incompetent as a scientologist, especially an auditor can be.

        It is an overt. ”

        Dio

    • Absolutely right, Tony, it should be for personal enhancement only. In Scn the Bridge IS a status symbol – exactly about the attitude of OTs to anyone lower on the Bridge.

      • Hi Starship.
        In fact why even go around and say I’m Clear or I’m OT 8!! Why not let people get auditing and never have them brag about their status? Just tell people that the auditing is for you and we ask that even if you attain certain states that you don’t go around advertising it if you don’t mind. It is really just for you.

        The cult uses it for marketing and to make money and people have fallen into that trap.

    • Tony,

      You are only thinking with scn.
      You are not thinking.

      You are parroting Hubbard.

      You cannot understand the problems that scn created by thinking within the box of scn.

      Like Einstein said: the type of thinking that caused the problem, is not the type of thinking that is required to solve the problem.

      You have to apply the data in “how to study a science” in the full spirit of it’s meaning and complete the cycle of learning, before you are really qualified to comment on anything.

      Reading the books and items I posted for Stat, would be a good start and only a good start.

      And you should also be following Marty’s blog very closely. He is doing a fairly good job of unpacking, untangling, parsing, disecting and evaluating every datum in scn.

      There are tons of false and limiting data very craftily embedded into the truths of scn to trap the feeble minded.

      The most dangerous lies are the ones almost true. The more truth there is in a fabricated set up, the more the truth acts like a glue to hold the embedded lie in place, which is thereafter not inspected, but defended to death.

      Dio

      • Okay Dio.
        You are the rightest person in the world. We all love and respect your wisdom. You are the smartest and most decent person alive and I strive to be more like you. Amen.

      • Hi Dio, I respect you for pointing this out to us. I’m not being ironic or sarcastic. I really mean it. There are many “out” who still think Hubbard’s word is the last word on everything. And who can still only think in the narrow confines of Scn, the box of Scn, as you call it.
        .
        You make a good point, too, that one really hasn’t the wherewithall, the authority to judge a religion or any entity without first exploring many others. One cannot know what he is talking about if he’s hooked into one religion only. He’s then Cult Fodder.
        .
        And Tony, I don’t mean this as an insult to you. I like your thought processes and hope you keep on communicating them to us on this blog.

      • Hi Ju,
        I don’t mind your comments at all. I am not just locked into Scietnology. I do read other things and have done meditation and been involved in other religions. I just think that Dio is weird that’s all. He has said some smart things from time to time, but he strikes me as a person who had to be right and thinks he is God’s gift to Earth.

      • When an honest and competent scntgist would see someone with a problem, the noble thing (the high theta thing) to do would be to simply say, (something to the effect of) can I help you?

        I understand your pain.

        I can help you solve your problems.

        I am a trauma or PTSD therapist and if you want some therapy, I am willing to discuss it with you and how to help you.

        I will give you a session or two or three free.

        And if you want more, and can afford to pay for it, we can talk about it then.

        Or better still do it like the late Bob Ross would do.

        The late Bob Ross, was a master at this.

        He would not even ask or say anything.

        He was skilled at just dove tailing the conversation into a session and it would be a little while before the unsuspecting client became aware that this was not an ordinary conversation.

        After the session was over and the person had a win, he would say something to the effect of: this one was on me, if you want more, please ask, or lets talk.

        He was a highly skilled master of the right use of TRs , ARC and KRC.

        I would say he was the only person I met in scn and the fz that I would give a pass mark to.

        I had a huge release after about 30 hours of auditing from him.
        It lasted two weeks.
        And he did not do scn auditing.

        He developed his own process, which is far superior to scn processing.

        That is what I mostly use.

        Look him up on line via search.

        Dio

      • “I am a trauma or PTSD therapist and if you want some therapy, I am willing to discuss it with you and how to help you.

        I will give you a session or two or three free.” ~ Dio.

        I’ll pass.

      • Hi Tony

        I respect your viewpoints about other people, you have a right to them.

        I don’t go with Scientology any more either. I did some meditation the other day to good effect. I feel free now to investigate other stuff, including brain trainment – an interesting concept.
        .
        It’s wonderful not to have to quote every point I’m trying to make with a reference which is applying, “If it’s not written, it’s not true.” It was a bloody nuicance. A lot of the written stuff is NOT true anyway, as it turns out!
        .
        I’ve gained the freedom I wanted by LEAVING Scientology. I’m not bound by dogma, anything perdantic, someone else’s rules, someone else calling the shots, someone else’s ulterior motives, someone else’s say so. I had to go through Scientology to find that freedom – through and out. Fortunately for me, it took two decades and not three or more. I’m thankful for small mercies.
        .
        For me, the way out was the way through. That is SO FUNNY!

      • Hi Ju,

        I feel free to do whatever I want to now also. I have done some meditation recently and it was helpful. I never will give up on auditing if I feel I need some. I have had some of my best wins from auditing. Just because the organization sucks and just because I don’t like every bit of the tech doesn’t mean I have to throw it all out. That would be pretty dumb in my book.

        Nobody had to use it if they don’t want to. To each his own.

  10. I believe that the power of acknowledgement is to make the other person feel that he has really been heard. He gets it more from body language than from any words you speak. This is TR2.

    I don’t think acknowledgement has anything to do with answering the person. Robotic TR2 is actually quite upsetting.
    .

  11. ” I can see some definite workability with the tone scale of Thetan plus body range. This range goes from enthusiasm at the top to body death at the bottom. I find a lot of the attributes that LRH gives for these tone levels very helpful. Not perfect, but helpful.”

    To me spirit cannot be separated from matter. The idea of thetan without a body has never been real to me. There is no such thing in Hinduism, which is the religion I grew up in.

    LRH projected and extrapolated a lot. Thetan without body would simply be a theoretical abstraction. It may or may not be useful. It is like a hypothesis waiting to be verified.
    .

    • Vinaire, I would love to have you go exterior – go away from your body, do something there, and then decide to come back to your body. It is great!
      .
      And please stop your carping on ‘LRH projected this, or said that’. Every Scientologist – certainly above Clear – has experienced exteriorization. And they have verified this! And add me in too.
      .
      I exteriorized at will before Scientology, but not knowing the what and how. I also thought everybody did this. So it was fun to discover LRH and the structure he hypothesized works for me.
      .
      Although Hubbard was willy-nilly forced to call Dianetics and Scientology a religion – there is NOTHING it compares to. It is a practical way of life using tools to improve conditions. Why is it actually not a religion a la Earth’s other religions? It does not require BELIEF.
      .
      Your website goes some lengths to analyse, and analyse, and analyse. If I was your moderator at MIT for your PhD, I would flunk you for the jumps in logic you employ. When you make an assumption, then go on to either prove it of disprove it, and then if proven, it is no longer an assumption. And grabbing ‘facts’ out of thin air does not qualify as proof or fact.
      .
      Hubbard’s unenviable task at the beginning was to introduce things radically and diametrically opposite to the mainstream religions’ ideas and thoughts and beliefs. It would be good exercise for you to do that – start with the book Excalibur plus the Search & Development notes, plus the 400-odd PC folders as at circa 1949. And decide you would like to tell people of what you have discovered about Man. AND THEN TELL US HOW YOU WOULD DO THAT. (And as I have read most of the then PC folders, I would advise to be very mindful of the gradient of the master plan.)

      • Hi Frik,
        .
        Well, there are two accounts you might find interesting, or perhaps “enturbulating”: the first is an audio recording – available on the Net – of David Mayo (LRH’s auditor) describing L. Ron Hubbard’s inability to exteriorize with perception. Privately, this ability was not a “given.” It eluded even LRH.
        .
        The second is an account – which can be tracked down on the “Ex Scientologist Message Board” – by Clear number 8 and student on the first Class VIII course, Alan Walter, where LRH seeks to impress the students of the Class VIII course by demonstrating his ability to be perceive outside the body, by describing what was occurring behind him. LRH described something that wasn’t there and, consequently, gave the entire class a collective “withhold” – In the era of Draconian Flag ship penalties, “SP” finding, and over boarding, no one would dare “make LRH wrong” by saying anything.
        .
        Then there is the annoying matter of why the Guardian’s Office, in its extensive spying activities, did not use OT abilities, such as exterior perception, etc., and the confidential LRH issue ‘Intelligence, Its Role’, where LRH ridicules and dismisses the idea of using paranormal or “OT” abilities for covert data collection or spying.
        .
        As for “the book Excalibur,” there are 2 and half versions of the unpublished manuscript ‘Excalibur’, from 1938, and, judging from accounts of those who have seen it, it doesn’t mention “exteriorization” or anything like “OT abilities.” Perhaps you are referring to Filbert’s ‘Excalibur Revisited’, which claims to have been derived from the Akashic records, etc., but, in fact, was derived from Filbert’s student notes, plus his own poetic embellishments.
        .
        And I’d like to see those “400-odd pc folders circa 1949.” That sound like some serious hype and PR.

      • Frik, What do you mean? I have been exterior many times, but that doen’t mean that spirit and matter are separate. It simply means that there are deeper stages of visualization than dream and imagination.

        I would to see objective evidence of “go away from your body, do something there, come back to your body, go back with your body and another person to the same spot and verify what you did there earlier when you were outside the body.”

        If you love subjectivity that is fine. All religious fanatics are like that. I just happen to like objectivity.

      • Boogle, thank you. I was on the ship from 1972 till we had to leave it in 1975-76. My memory of Hubbard is that of a very angry man.

        Exteriorization is a phenomenon that accompanies unfixing of attention from the body. That is all.

      • “Although Hubbard was willy-nilly forced to call Dianetics and Scientology a religion” – The reason Hubbard declared Scn a religion so that he wouldn’t have to pay taxes. There was nothing willy-nilly about it.
        .
        I find you a tad naive, sorry to say.

      • “Every Scientologist – certainly above Clear – has experienced exteriorization. And they have verified this!” – This is some statement, one helluva generality and, in my opinion, balderdash.
        .
        Hubbard talked a lot about going exterior in the PDCs. He didn’t manage to get it to happen much. The processes he talks about which were supposed to do this never came about.
        .
        “Your website goes some lengths to analyse, and analyse, and analyse. If I was your moderator at MIT for your PhD, I would flunk you for the jumps in logic you employ. When you make an assumption, then go on to either prove it of disprove it, and then if proven, it is no longer an assumption. And grabbing ‘facts’ out of thin air does not qualify as proof or fact.”

        – and this is one helluva invalidation. Wow! What tone level is 2.0, no higher.

      • Scientology is not a religion, Frik. It’s self help. It doesn’t even have all the answers to life, as claimed by its founder.
        .
        The subtle brainwashing – it’s your eternity, we’re the only ones capable of saving the planet; we’re the superior beings on the planet, we’ll all meet again on Target 2; can’t practise other practices; not allowed to ask questions, not allowed to disagree with Hubbard and now Miscavige. Etc, etc, etc. It’s a cult. Let’s be real.

  12. “I was unable to discuss/evaluate some of these things while involved with corporate Scientology because the minute I would want to discuss something I would be checked for misunderstood words or false data. For me having to review and look for misunderstood words was a kind of punishment. There also were ethics punishments for “verbal data” and not using references to back up one’s ideas. I found this very restricting and diminished my own self determinism and ability to think with what I was learning.”

    The above simply amounts to SUPPRESSION in Scientology. It has destroyed the subject.
    .

  13. Some good points Tony. I agree that these things should be openly discussed and debated, which, as you point out, is expressly forbidden in the church.

    Re: TR2 – the other aspect of this is duplication and understanding. I can remember being in session and sorting through some type of confusion, telling this to my auditor, trying to make sense of something, and spending quite a bit of time doing it. And what I got in response from my auditor was “Thank You. I’ll repeat the auditing command”. WTF? I thought to myself, “you didn’t understand that; I know, because I didn’t understand it!”

    With other auditors, they would look at me and start to ask questions about what I was attempting to sort out. These auditors cared and wanted to help me sort out the confusion. And I really got that they were listening to me.

    This to me is one of the differences between a great auditor and a robot auditor. Unfortunately, since GAT I, the church seems content with the latter.

    • Hi Statpush.
      That was my point with doing TR2 with attention on really listening. The way it’s done my whole Scn career was to say a line or two and then give an ack. I think mocking up stories as if you were in session and having the person listen with affinity and then giving a good ack would be WAY better. I am going to try this out and see if it’s any good.
      Another thing I thought of just now is the idea of owning the tech and not being afraid to tweak it and make it better. It goes against the grain of everything you are taught in Scientology. You don’t want to squirrel or anything. You may become an SP!! OMG!! BOOO!! Lol.
      I think it’s okay to own the tech and try out different things. I mean if it’s not broken don’t fix it. If a person is getting rave results then by all means keep doing that. But if you are getting shitty results then you are an idiot if you don’t try to fix it. Even if something is okay or pretty good it’s okay to try to make it better isn’t it?

  14. Tony, my take on this is: that to be uptone when someone is experiencing physical or emotional pain is misemotion, and indicates that there is something not quite right with the mind of the person expressing that misemotion. That the TRs combined with the theory and practice of ARC leads to a compassionate interchange with a fellow human being. That TR0 gives one the practice and ability needed to just being able to be there comfortably, and by using that ability instead of being involved in your own head, you can do something effective for the person in front of you. Given all of that, using the processes Ron found to be the most effective, the person in front of you can then experience what actual Scientology can do and help him/her get out of his/her head.

    As regards “The tone scale of Thetan without a body range”, it wasnt too real for me either until I experienced the death of a person, an atheist, who had been very ill for a long time. There was no mistaking the massive jump in tone on getting out of that body!

    • Hey 4a.

      I think TR0 is a good drill. I’m saying that drilling it with affinity can make it better. I have seen some people doing the drill who become almost zombie like. An almost not there look and one that can look quite cold. If you used this one people I am not sure it would create the desired effect.

      Being able to confront someone coldly is better than not being able to confront at all.

      Being able to confront someone with high affinity is WAY better than confronting them coldly.

      Even drilling TR’s to handle the pc with this “no sympathy” valence isn’t that great for the pc. As I said in my original post, the TR’s were done well earlier in my Scientology career and the later part of it I think that dm’s tone level started having more and more influence on the group. A contagion of aberration. The Sea Org with their cold chrome steel identity. That South African lady they posted about here, I forget her name now, came to Seattle. She was only friendly to those who gave money. I was in the Org helping out as a Chaplain and she wouldn’t give me the time of day because I had decided to stop giving money at that point. It didn’t matter to her how much I had already given. It was “what have you done for me lately??”

      As far as the thetan without body tone level goes, I can mock up some examples of how that can be. Say like controlling bodies, Hitler may have been there in that tone, but how do you really spot that? Maybe after he takes over half of Europe? Then it’s too late. Lol.
      I’m just saying that the usefulness of tone levels outside of 0 to 4 have limited value as far as I can see. It also used to irk me trying to spot people or “OT’s” on the scale. The social veneer is say conservative and their chronic tone seems to be for example anger and what is the bodiless tone level? Can a thetan in a body really have a tone level of something outside of the thetan with body range? Let’s take this TONE 40 thing. Oh boy!! This used to bug the shit out of me. Trying to get people to be tone 40. WTF?! Are the people trying to teach others to be TONE 40, are THEY TONE 40?? I think not. I had people drilling me on trying to be tone 40 on the pro metering and it was the biggest mind fuck ever. I actually think this is one of the things that is ruining Scientology. Trying to bulldoze people with being TONE $40.

      • Re daves TRs, and the way they get taught, I agree.

        Re the Tone 40 drill, yes it used to piss me off that the ashtray never stood up too. But Tone 40 is a very handy drill to know, especially in an emergency, and moving people around out of danger.
        It sounds to me like you did these courses after me, dave hadnt changed too much of the tech when I did them, so they were great courses, fast and to the point. I did find that when I went back to continue my training when gat came in that there was too much bs for me.

      • I agree if they gave you some of the drills to a win on Tone 40 they could have some benefit. The Pro metering course was an exercise in torture when I did it. The ironic thing was that I was on OT7 at the time and they thought I was good enough to audit that but not to pass this dumb course. All it did was beat out of me the desire to audit. This lifetime at least. 🙂

  15. TR0: “The whole idea is to get the student able to be there comfortably in a position three feet in front of a preclear, to be there and not do anything else but be there.” (HCOB 16 Aug 71 II) In the previous HCOB of 19 Jun 71 III, it notes “gradient by gradient”.
    .
    I have got a preclear off the ceiling after 3 hours of just TR0. She couldn’t confront another being – and at the end I have a smiling relaxed being that the night before attempted suicide.
    .
    The alternate from her family, doctor and the police, was to lock her up.
    .
    LRH gave us these tools. And just as a 13mm ring spanner can be used by an idiot to strip the threads of the stuck bolt, it can also be used on a gradient to obtain the desired end result – a loosened bolt. And I get the impression that not using the tool correctly is now a license to recriminate the tool designer and builder. Shame on you.
    .
    Let’s examine the ‘three feet’, and make it even less, on a gradient. Then please tell me in what position relative to another are you when making love (sex). Then please look at the definition of affinity in the Tech Dictionary, and note the phrase ‘occupying the same space as another’. And then definition #6: ‘in its truest definition which is the coincidence of location and beingness, that is the ultimate in affinity.’ But I suppose some of you have had sex but not been in the same space and beingness . . .
    .
    So, Tony, ‘no sympathy’ with TR0? Just the opposite, old friend. But that is only part of what a healthy being can be, when appropriate to the occasion. Like standing in a queue or jammed together on a tube train – the closeness of others doesn’t bother – ‘just be there’.

    • I never said that TR0 causes no sympathy. I said drilling the TR’s with no emphasis on affinity causes the no sympathy syndrome we see coming from some Scientologists.

      Also it is sort of a contagion of aberration.

      As I said above, the group sort of dramatizes the tone level of it’s leader. Look at the way the public is hounded for money. Do the leaders of the group care whether they are pressing people into horrible conditions to get the money? No.
      They have a no sympathy attitude about it. It’s the greatest good for dm’s dynamics. Does the group like it if you went on a vacation and had some fun? No. You have “other fish to fry” or are 1st dynamic oriented. If you give a quarter to a street person, then you are validating a downstat.
      This isn’t an absolute. Of course people still in the group do nice things too. I’m just saying that the culture of corporate Scientology breeds an inclination towards being somewhat cold and uncaring.
      All the money I donated to the IAS and other things I gave it to help. I have no idea if that money helped anyone, except dm and maybe some regg bonuses.
      I would have much preferred helping people that I know with that money. I could have loaned some to a friend or two who needed help. Whatever I decided to do would have been better than giving it to the IAS. If I was in and gave money to a friend instead of giving it to the IAS the people around me trying to get my money would be flabbergasted.
      Your comment gives me the idea that you didn’t really duplicate my post.
      I have used TR’s very well for myself and others. I know that others have also and still do.

  16. TRs are not TRs if they are done without ARC. Someone who has been coached to do TRs without ARC has been coached wrongly and is not doing what TRs are meant to be.
    Where and when you did yours, over the years? I understood you were an old-timer and would have expected you to get the good old stuff. I do agree though that over the years TRs have become estranged from what they were originally. I strongly agree about your proposed change of TR-2. It is very well as it is – IF done properly, and that is naturally and with good ARC.

    Word clearing that comes across as punishment is utterly wrong. It is out-tech as it means the auditor’s code is out on the word clearer if that’s how it comes across.

    I do agree that the fanatic “verbal tech” approach is sadly not conducive to free thinking. And the sort of make-wrong that can and has accompanied it is not good at all. But then again, this sort of make-wrong is out ARC, which means low-toned, which again means it’s out-TRs.

    • Affinity is a variable. It can be higher or lower. I did TR’s in many different places over the years. I think higher affinity should be worked on. This wasn’t a piece on TR’s are bad. I think the TR’s are basically real good. It’s just an opinion. You said you agree on my TR2 change, but I get you really meant to write that you disagree. That’s cool. I’m not running Scientology currently so you are safe for now… 🙂
      When I was on Solo Nots if you did things “wrong” that they found out in sec checking such as missing a three swing f/n or calling one that you weren’t sure of they would throw you back into the shark tank called a course room where all the students who were trying to get back home would be clambering to get a supervisor pass. It wasn’t very fun and there was very little affinity. If you got real bugged then you had to pay for qual handlings and top of paying something around 30,000 a year to stay on the level. With ethics handlings and sec checks and all the trimmings it amounted to torture. Maybe I had it worse than the average Scientologist, but for me it didn’t come across as the friendliest place on Earth.
      My main point was that the current regime is gradually changing people to have less affinity and to be coldly emotion free. It is starting at the top and is working it’s way to the Org nearest you.

      • Goodo Tony!

        I like a lot of what you are saying, my friend. We are the “lucky ones”, I guess, since we have apparently broken free of the leashes, restraints, chains, whips, torture, and other forms of “mind control”, that have come to epitomize present day’s (and even yesterday’s) scientology. BY TACIT AGREEMENT, of those who have superglued their blinkers on!

        That one is, of course, (and always WAS, btw) latently free to make up one’s own mind on practically anything one so chooses, (The TRUTH shall set you FREE), somehow got lost in the process of coming to believe one “has to” go up the bridge, to do that! (Go free!)

        The big joke, (it turns out) was on us! 🙂

        Ron himself, revealed this in ‘The Factors of Clearing’, (p.36) video transcript, when he told a group of assembled Auditors,:

        “To make a Clear, all you have to do, is show a fellow that he’s mocking-up his own mind — therefore his own difficulties — and that he is not completely adrift in and swamped by a body. And there he is; you’ve got a Clear.”

        Duh, ya’d think we could’ve dooplicated dat in de first place, huh? 🙂

      • Hi Tony, you are right. It was a typo. I meant to say that I disagreed with your proposed changes/ideas of changes to TR-2. But thanks for you comm. It’s so good to comm.
        Gee that stuff you’ve experienced on Solo NOTs, what a hogwash and a butchery it is! Too sad. I actually feel bad for those who are on the level today. I can see such a difference between then and now.
        “My main point was that the current regime is gradually changing people to have less affinity and to be coldly emotion free. It is starting at the top and is working it’s way to the Org nearest you.” Very well put.

    • You said “TRs are not TRs if they are done without ARC. Someone who has been coached to do TRs without ARC has been coached wrongly and is not doing what TRs are meant to be.”
      Whether this is true or not is debatable.

      Absolutes are unobtainable in TR’s I think.

      Nobody has absolute affinity, reality and communication skills, so they can always get better in my opinion.

      When you say without ARC what does that mean? Everyone is using ARC to some degree unless they are dead. A person at apathy uses affinity and reality and communication to the best of their ability. If you mean HIGH ARC I would agree and that is sort of my point that HIGH AFFINITY and REALITY are NOT used in TR’s now adays.

      Also where is the reality in teaching auditing to someone if they never get taught how to listen to someone tell them something important? The stats have become more important than actually helping anyone. Look how many people wanted to become auditors and were crushed out of it by that stupid pro metering course!! Did the pro metering course teach people to be good auditors?? HELL NO!! Did the Pro metering course help people to listen to another and to make them feel better?? No. Where are all the auditors? Why has the “church” made it so hard to help another person??? WHY???
      It’s because dm is trying to stop auditing to the best of his ability and this is covertly pushed down the line. Of course some people cans still glean the good stuff from the tech and you still get some results coming through because of this.
      Most of the auditing done at Flag I would wager is sec checking. This is used to help gain control of the person. I could go on and on but I think you get the idea.

      • Yes, Tony, I do get the idea. And yes, what I meant re the TRs was high ARC. It is an important point to distinguish between back then, and later on. And yes, of course with high ARC is how they are supposed to be done. And LRH says so in the references on TRs. What nonsense was made out of it later is a different and a sad story. There are a million ways to fuck up. You can take anything in the world, no matter how good it is, and fuck it up. Take a good high toned thing, action, whatever, and use it in a low-toned way. You’ll fuck it up. Pardon my language. That’s what’s been done. There are so many examples of it. Instead of using the tone scale to help a pc more efficiently it is used to evaluate and invalidate people. Instead of using the idea of being cause in a causative way it is used to make another wrong, by admonishing him over not being cause enough. Instead of getting a withhold off only when and where it is an actual withhold blocking the pc’s advance it is gotten off to make him wrong and push him down. Etc, etc, etc

      • I think we are on the same page Meja Deja.

        Just get the idea of doing this drill I thought of. Having someone tell a brief story as if they were getting auditing and having the person just listen until the person is finished and then ack. Where else is this taught?

      • Racingintheblood39 – “I guess, since we have apparently broken free of the leashes, restraints, chains, whips, torture, and other forms of “mind control”, that have come to epitomize present day’s (and even yesterday’s) scientology. BY TACIT AGREEMENT, of those who have superglued their blinkers on!”
        .
        I like this. It’s a good summation.

  17. One other thing I thought of was how the “church” ran by David Missmanage added this idea of “perfection” to everything. How is that for adding a lie on the line? trying to give all the auditors an overt for having to be perfect or route in for handling. So they all end up having to lie so they don’t get into trouble. More stops.

    • The majority of perfidious liars on earth use the same technique. They speak of purity, virtue and blessings while doing the exact opposite. Hitler did. Your telephone company does it when they raise their prices on you, restrict your access and generally limit your sphere while boldly calling their changes “improvements” and “benefits”. And it’s the modern form of PR. It works as well these days as it did in the past.
      The idea of “perfection” propagated by the CoS is as perfidious is it gets. It has caught so many well-intentioned people into its net and dragged them off into waters where no pcs can ever get auditing for real because the auditors there cannot breathe and cannot audit.

  18. A fun auditor drill I thought up is to ask someone you know ” What was the most exciting thing you ever did?” and listen to the answer. Don’t cut in unless there is something you are curious about but let them tell you the whole story and then give them a good ack. It’s very fun and real. You aren’t doing it to “audit” them, do it because you are interested. I have never had it happen when the person telling me the story wasn’t happy about doing it. You also learn some cool stuff about the person and the ARC goes up. It’s a natural law.

  19. I think bagging together “homosexuals” is the same as bagging together any group. Whether it is “Jews” or “Whites” or whatever. I am white and I know very well, all whites are different. Depends on a lot of other things. All dogs are different. So why would I think, “All gays are…” unless I can think with, “All whites are….” . Hubbard intimated all women were 1.1 too.

    He wrote these things in the 50’s. Maybe if you were gay or a woman in the 1950’s, you had to be 1.1 or you would be shunned socially. Society can force people to be a certain way. I guess the women in countries where they have to keep their faces hidden, are “In hiding”.

    But I would never presume that all segments of a given culture are aligned in tone. And I think the PURPOSE behind statements like this, is to reduce your ARC towards a certain culture or group. What other purpose could there be? You see it out and about in the Indie movement. “All Freezoners are squirrels.” What is the purpose behind that? To reduce your ARC for Freezoners.

    A few weeks ago one of my relatives that got restimulated over the Gaza situation contacted me over a period of days with disparaging remarks about Jews. After spending a fair amount of time trying to get the person to see some reason, and failing, finally I just said, “Look, I do not want my affinity for the people in this world to become less.” Haven’t heard back. Gave her a failed I realized when she removed me from her Facebook.

    Who did Hubbard target as a 1.1? Women, homosexuals. Who/What did Hubbard oppose? In S.O.S.. Women and homosexuals.

    When did Hubbard invent the L12 which handles OP TERM case? Much later. But, if you were Hubbard’s C/S, you would have him run this on his L12.

    Who / What would oppose a woman?

    You would take up that identity, and purpose clear it. This would be a former identity the P.C. had, or a current identity the P.C. is.

    So, now, in present time, if you read S.O.S. and you understand all of this, you see that Hubbard’s PURPOSE was to oppose women and homosexuals, or he would not have put it out there. And that some part of his current or a past identity, had some purpose which was in opposition to these identities.

    It is not so much about the identities, as the PURPOSE.

    That said, What is the purpose of a homosexual? What is the purpose behind that? What is the purpose of a woman? What is the purpose behind that? These are identities that are only mocked up to carry forward a purpose. And they might be all different purposes for all different women or homosexuals.

    Just because a person opposes something, doesn’t make it bad. It just means they are opposed to it.

    • And, if you were take everything else Hubbard said as gospel, if you mentioned something disparaging in an auditing session about homosexuals, or women, you would instantly be asked what with hold did a homosexual miss on you? Or, what with hold did a woman miss on you?

      • I love your observations, The Oracle.
        .
        About homosexuals, I’ve known gays at every tone level. I’ve known a couple of Lesbians, too, and have not picked up that they are 1.1. In fact, I’ve found all not really different from heterosexuals in that they’ve been helpful, kind and generous of spirit. Gays, in particular, I generally find them loveable. They’re often more open and honest than straights.
        .
        I have a nephew who’s gay and he is married, very respectable, is productive and, a pillar of society, actually. I’ve not picked up a 1.1 fibre in his bones. The only time he was covert was before he knew that I knew that he was gay.
        .
        As for woman, suffice to say, they’re salt of the earth people.
        .
        Yet Hubbard feared women and homosexuals. He had some case on him though, didn’t he?

      • Might be. There are plenty of people on the Internet obsessed with Hubbard’s overts and with holds. I could care less what they were. The sooner we get through sorting out what is workable and brings joy to our fellow man, and what just doesn’t work in this century as highly beneficial, the better off we will be. I think there is much to sift through. I think there is a lot of highly beneficial information, it would only be our duty, to pass on. Let he that is without sin among you, let him first cast the stones. That would disqualify me.

      • And I do not think it is wrong for anyone to sift through what has been laid on the table, left on the table by Hubbard, and ask people to view it in present time. Against the backdrop of all that has come to pass. Adjust systems so they work. This is the work of mankind. Everyone on else on the planet does it. I do not think it is wrong to look, to question. In fact, it is our duty. if we hope to pass this on in a valuable form. No more blind faith, no more blind trust because someone says’, “I’m K.S.W.”. We have all had the rug pulled out from under feet in some way, with blind trust and blind faith. Let’s get educated. So we can place the trust and faith within ourselves. Every conversation is an education.

      • Hi T.O. i mirror many of your thoughts, as well.

        Though here’s a ‘fessing up on my part.;

        Much earlier in my life, I too felt the same, estranging sentiments towards gays and lesbians, based upon a stereotypical attitude of unfair bias.

        Tracking up to the present, some 35 years later, having had numerous “non-straight” persons as clients and personal friends, I look back at the ‘fault’ having been squarely mine, and mine alone.

        Having a bigoted (intolerant ) attitude, cannot sit comfortably, alongside the ability to ‘grant beingness’, now can it??

        Jeez, before, I go off on one of my rants, let me just say:

        Listen up, people! We are ALL fucking ‘earthlings’, with an intrinsic entitlement to try to survive, irrespective of the hand of cards we have dealt, right??

        Let’s just grow up, wake up, come to PT, whatever, and just let it GO?

        Please? 🙂

      • “Having a bigoted (intolerant ) attitude, cannot sit comfortably, alongside the ability to ‘grant beingness’, now can it??” What a valid point, racingintheblood39. I’ve thought of this at time, albeit not full on, and am so glad to see it pointed out by you.
        .
        Helluva contradition that, grant beingness as in What it Greatness, but to still practise bigotry. Grant beingness as long as it’s to people who are not homosexuals, not of a different colour, creed or culture.
        .
        A most profound point, racintheblood39.

    • To illustrate how significant this kind of purpose clearing is, on L12. Get the idea of someone born in Japan and recruited into service in WWll. They are trained and missioned as a suicide bomber, and thier purpose is to “destroy America”. They get bombed over Saipan and in the next life, come back as a member of the prominent Kennedy family, and enter into politics, and become president of the U.S.. On top of a purpose to “destroy America”.

      Now maybe you can a picture of why it matters. Why things do not “flow smoothly” in almost any organization.

    • Thanks for the ack, ju! The irony, (joke actually), is that the “Bridge to Total Freedom” [Through INCREASING AWARENESS,] is ‘out here’ in the ‘wog world’, which is the domain of all those thoroughly degraded, dangerous, Ess Pee’s! 🙂
      …..Since this is where we actually DO have FREE access to the necessary information, (via the Internet, at least), which effectively “enlightens” us!

      LOL. 🙂

    • Great Tara!! I still recall your early posts on Marty’s site. Full of spirit! 🙂
      It’s weird that I almost got sidetracked off of the main reason I wrote the essay. I get pissed off about things and I have emotions. I felt that the “church” was trying to get me to be some sort of a Spock character as I went up the Bridge I was supposed to be this analytical super being who never reacted to anything. Fuck that. That’s a great way to make yourself sick.

      • Touche, Tony. I’m as emotional as hell.
        .
        It’s funny now looking back, most of the people I was in the church with don’t know me at all and they know very little about what I do, what I like, etc. I’ve often thought of this. At my memorial, if I had it had at the church which won’t be happening, of course, people would say, Gee, I never really knew her.
        .
        I had become so “interested” that I’d unconsciously suppressed so much of myself, the core of Me. My TRs were so good, no one could tell ANYTHING. What a laugh.
        .
        I’ve got a couple of OT 5 friends (I’m Clear) who frown upon displays of emotion. At movies, they never shed a tear, or scream in terror, or laugh freely. Both of them just sit there. Yet they are two lovely people. One of them said to me one day when we were watching a sad movie on my TV and I was crying, “You need your OT levels. They will handle that!”

      • Tony, LRH would turn over in his grave. He wrote in SOS and other places that being able to move on the Tone Scale is a good thing. And “misemotion” is only misemotion if it doesn’t match what would be an appropriate reaction to what is happening at the moment. For instance, if you suffered the loss of a loved one due to death, grief is an appropriate emotion. Yet Hy Levy, when he was in the SO, couldn’t get OK to his CSW to go see his mom as she was dying. The SO felt it was Dev T and to show emotion to it would be weak. How FUed is that?

  20. Thanks Tony nice writing. Yes what matter is the ability to listen et to really be interested by what the other fellow says. And if you can add to this no eval, and no inval. You’re just a saint. Someone who can do that is a geant amongst his fellow man.
    Back to better time, I knew in scientology people who could do that. You would speak to them, you would feel understood, they grant beingness to you. Then you feel so light, so yourself. This is the major ability anyone could have. It’s priceless and it transcend the world of scientology.
    The church of Miscavige has forgotten it. When I learned to audit, I achieved this ability (after 1000 of hours of auditing PCs). And my PC would speak to me like to a friend. They would blow the charge very easly, and the sessions I gave were always short because the PCs were blown out.
    We have to go back at that… this is what is scientology most basically.

  21. “And I do not think it is wrong for anyone to sift through what has been laid on the table, left on the table by Hubbard, and ask people to view it in present time. Against the backdrop of all that has come to pass. Adjust systems so they work. This is the work of mankind. Everyone on else on the planet does it. I do not think it is wrong to look, to question. In fact, it is our duty. if we hope to pass this on in a valuable form. No more blind faith, no more blind trust because someone says’, “I’m K.S.W.”. We have all had the rug pulled out from under feet in some way, with blind trust and blind faith. Let’s get educated. So we can place the trust and faith within ourselves. Every conversation is an education.”
    Loved this comment Oracle.

  22. scnafica, I really want to validate you guys, for allowing such a “good game” to be played on your playing field. As fellow South Africans, I’m sure you are familiar with “good referee-ing”, which is so highly regarded in our rugby matches. As you know, letting the game “flow”, with minimum interference, makes for the very best viewing spectacle, and is truly appreciated by both the players, and spectators alike.

    Of course, WHEN there is “foul play”, it is incumbent on the ref. to intervene, and penalize the ‘offending party’ — for the sake of continuance, (or spirit) of the the game in hand.

    Your timeous intervention, with articles such as “The Trolls are at it again”, are a great credit to you, as a team, and I really want to thank you for that!

    –Calvin 🙂

  23. This is late…been busy. but for the record, wish to acknowledge:
    Wonderful and spot on post Tony!!! So true about the TRS. In my 1st session as an Indie after years of being down and out bridge-wise, I kept asking the auditor (the inimitable and wonderful Claudio Lugli) “IS THIS A SESSION?” And he said sure Hemi. Kept asking. Because it was so natural, like having a cup of cofee on the beach. and if I said a really funny thing he would crack laughing. God, that’s the only proper ack for that. Putting on a CoS goats TRy face with hardly a smile, would totally invalidate my mood and TONE, not to mention my sense of humor. I was shocked at this and many other element of Indie auditing. Of course the laughing auditor soon enough gently gets on with the session, no problem, no distraction. Was a revelation.
    And that’s how in 4 sessions many years of being stuck and suppressed, got handled FULLY.
    (The CoS estimate given me was 6-8 intensives…!
    One small note on emotional tone scale/level: The wisest thing I heard about it from Ron and agreed more and more as years went by was: The most optimum state of beingness regarding the scale is being FREE and flowing with one’s tone level. That’s the real secret. Not any must haves on this or that tone. Life is a complex game, and being a true player means you can be many things and many tones. It is much better being temporarily in a low tone, going through it naturally, than being stuck in a (false) high tone. That way you end up usually pretty high.

  24. There wa s a little discussion on Tech 4 reality discussion list, which was about the cause of people commiting overts and what causes people to lie, especially become habitual liars.

    I posted the following and thought this should be seguayed into this thread.

    Because once a person understands these basic principles, it will provide the mechanics or the formula or basis to figure out any aberration in an individual.

    It is a brief summary of the tech in Dianetics, too.
    I could write a lot more to describe the cause of other aberrations, like what causes irrational emotional behavior, inability to emote, inability for ARC, inability to form relationships, etc., but it would be much to write. Anyone with a basic understanding of dianetics and scn should cog on the cause of any aberration from this.

    My post to Tech 4 reality:

    I have been doing some thinking  about the cause of overts (harmful acts) and lying  too.

    This is what I thought:

    Children  learn to lie, when  they learn it is not safe to tell their parents the truth.

    Or when they live in an overall unsafe home environment.

    Example: they accidentally break the flower vase, when parents do not see.  Then parents find out, and berate or berate and beat them.

    It was an honest accident or a mistake, not an overt.  Beings need to have accidents to learn how this world works. It has been wisely said that we learn more from mistakes than we do from failures.  If you let them have and experience  the right kind of accidents and mistakes  when they are young, they will have much less accidents when they are older  and throughout life.  Everything man has ever learned has been through the making of mistakes and disasters and the spilling of blood. Everybody makes mistakes. But there are normal mistakes and “not normal” mistakes. There are allowable mistakes and accidents and not allowable mistakes or accidents. Or forgivable mistakes and accidents and not forgivable mistakes and accidents, or acceptable and non acceptable mistakes and accidents.

    (Hubbard deals with this in Dianetics. He says  if you buy the child a toy,  you must let him do what ever he wants to do with the toy. If he breaks it in the normal course of playing with it, so be it. he is learning and figuring out how the world works.  If you prevent him from breaking it, he will break everything of yours for the rest of your life. In my case this was so true.  The child’s higher self (conscience) knows what the ideal state is, and he has to learn through experience, where the limits of MEST (the physical universe) are. He needs to learn where the breaking point is of physical  matter is. When he breaks it, he will have a cognition on the physical limits of matter. If he goes through this learning process  properly, he will  have a superior understanding of the MEST universe for the rest of his life.  He will be much less prone to breaking things and making mistakes  in later life. But if you interfere with this normal learning process, he will have great difficulty doing anything right.  He will have difficulty completing cycles of actions. He will have GPMs galore. A GPM is goals, problems mass. The being has a goal, he runs into overwhelming problems or interference and fails. This is traumatic to the being. This develops mental mass, or “blocks” in the mind. It is part of the darkness you see in your mind.) He will be extremely accident prone. He will have avolition, the condition of not being able to accomplish goals. He is PTS or “actual trouble source”.  He is a jinx. Everything he touches turns to a mess or a disaster.  He is trouble looking for a place to happen. If his normal course of development and learning is not interfered with, or not aberrated he will have the Mida’s touch. 

    We come with natural, innate knowledge (biological programs) (programs in the soul) of knowing  what to do to figure this world out and what to do to be successful in life or handle this MEST universe successfully. Hubbard called this  degrees of survival. How well we survive or not survive. How “successful” we are or how “not successful” we are.  Dennis Stevens called this the desire “to know” and desire “to be known”.

    This subject is also part of the story (and cleverly done) in the Anastasia series of books (9 of them) by Vladimir Megre. Ringing Cedars North America – Official Website These are a must read for any truth seeker. ) 

    Ringing Cedars North America – Official Website
    “Basically, these books make all the other books that I’ve read to date look like a complete waste of paper!” – Rafal, Australia WHY such a mind-blowing re…

    View on http://www.ringingcedars.com

    Or in another version of this incident, they accidentally break the vase and go and tell the parents and get berated or berated and beaten for doing so. The child learns that it is not safe to tell the parents the truth. So the child learns to lie and deny.

    Children steal when they are prevented from having the things they rightfully need to have (must have) or should have or can have. That which their higher selves or conscience (and GE too) tells them they need to have.

    Children commit overts when they are punished for making mistakes which are the normal course of learning how this universe works.

    Children commit overts and lie when they have had bad things/wrong things  done to them. (Bad parenting.)

    Children commit overts and lie when their higher selves have been violated. Or what their high selves, their conscience knows  is wrong, that has been done to them, which prevents  proper development.

    Children become angry and mad when they have been prevented from BEING who their higher selves needs them to be, for proper development.

    Children become angry and mad when they have been prevented from DOING what their higher selves  needs them to do for proper development. In plain language they become stupid. They can’t think, or figure out anything correctly.

    Children become angry  and mad when they have been prevented from HAVING what their higher selves needs them to have for proper development.

    Children become angry and mad, when they have been emotionally abandoned, rejected, abused, suppressed,  etc.

    In other words, they collectively or overall  experienced  “bad control”.  Versus good control. There is a right way and a wrong way to do almost everything.

    This bad control  gives them various personality disorders, which cause them to not fit in with normal society, or they do not have the character and personality which allows them to be competent in good society.

    They can develop psychosis, neurosis, schitzophrenia  or any aberrated state.

    In my evaluation I  think this is why otherwise average American, Canadian, European, Austrialian  young people (or even others) becomes (or can become)  radicalized  and become terrorists and join groups like ISIS.

    (Their home environment and upbringing is so adverse to what their higher selves or “conscience”  requires for proper development, they flip over to the radical extreme.  They become bi polar, insane, or schitzophrenic, manic depressive, or any such aberrated state.  They develop  the inability to discern right from wrong. They think right is wrong and wrong is right.

    They go mad and are  angry at everything. They are angry and mad at the world. They are angry and mad at everyone.  Because all their flows of effort  have been blocked, or aberrated or interfered with. Everything they tried to do, for their normal course of development (according to their higher selves, their conscience, their Holy Spirit, their internal guidance system) was interfered with, blocked, invalidated, suppressed, or aberrated in some way or fashion.

    They have had their parents aberrated postulates implanted into their minds and aura and beingness.

    These scenarios can cause the adolescent or young adult to go in any aberrated direction.

    They can become mass killers, cop killers, employee/employer  killers,  random shooting killers, politician killers, spouse killers,  murders, thieves, pedophiles and  the like.

    To compound the matter, they absorb all the negativity they pick up from the world around them, that includes everything from violent video games, to the negative media.   They tune into the media and people in general constantly criticizing the government, and tearing the politicians apart, making politicians and authority wrong, and the so called journalists doing everything possible to try and discredit and even destroy politicians and people in authority.  All the negativity in the world flows to them and they act it out in the extreme. All the negativity in the world manifests (or tends to manifest)  in these types that are the products of failed parenting.

    We are all only as good as we have been bred and brought up.

    We are all products of a conception and an upbringing.

    If you have a problem with the product you have to check the factory for the cause of the problem.

    There never was “just born a bad child”. There was never a child who “just turned out bad.” 

    The child is a product. As in everything else, there is a cause for this, and the cause is in the factory, not in the child.

    Dio

    • I just saw a mistake in my post, and one point that needed expansion for clarification:

      Re:
      Beings need to have accidents to learn how this world works. It has been wisely said that we learn more from mistakes than we do from failures.

      That should read:

      Beings need to have accidents to learn how this world works. It has been wisely said that we learn more from mistakes and failures, than we do from successes.

      Another one, just a clarification:

      If you prevent him from breaking it, he will break everything of yours for the rest of your life. In my case this was so true. The child’s higher self (conscience) knows what the ideal state is, a

      Should read:

      If you prevent him from breaking it, or scold him for breaking it, he will break everything of yours for the rest of your life. In my case this was so true. The child’s higher self (conscience) knows what the ideal state is, a

      Dio

  25. Dio I have never been more disgusted in my life over a post. Your ignorant rants about the gay community sickens me. You are a bigot.

    I wrote to you at Marty’s blog. I can not begin to tell you how absolutely wrong you are regarding child development. You don’t have a Freakin clue.

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